In 2018, Stop the Liars and the Lies the Lying Liars Lie

[T Amnesia]

Let's resolve this year to be done with the liars in Washington and stop defending the lies they spread like warm peanut butter on hot toast.  Lies like, well, anything that falls out of Sarah Sanders word-hole.

Sarah Huckabee Sanders is a liar by proxy for any number of White House liars, who spends her days repeating their lies or, sometimes in fits of fantasy, makes up her own lies, none of which bear any resemblance to the reality that the rest of us are living in.  The deficit is bad, needs to be reduced, the Dems must stop increasing the deficit,... ...wait.... yes, this tax bill will.....no, it will not increase the deficit by 18 trillion dollars over the average liar's lifetime as the Fake News is reporting.....

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She is in fact, a Liar by profession.  She gets paychecks to lie, in public, on camera, to people whose job it is to repeat her lies to us, the general public, and when she stops lying, she will be fired.   You know it, I know it, she knows it, the White House knows it. 

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Not a word of what she parrots to us is ever, ever true. If she says the president said this or that, it is not true.  She talks to the president something like never and has no clue regarding his thoughts on any topic, and is certainly lying when she is telling us that Trump meant "this" when we all heard him say "THAT!"

[T Amnesia]

Those are some interesting reports.  The first one states, "It appears that there may have been some classic examples of vote padding happening in Wisconsin. ... The state has removed nearly 5,000 votes from Trump’s lead  due to human error."  This is a case of poll workers that were caught  falsifying the voting results for the benefit of ONE candidate.  I find it difficult to believe these were errors when the errors were always for the benefit of a single candidate or party.

The fraud I'm speaking of , however, is large scale VOTER fraud carried out by those who cast votes.  Not poll workers who falsify results or even voter registration fraud.  I'm talking about voters who purposely cast votes that they should not, because that is the common theme voiced by republicans when they insist that the only way to have legitimate elections is by scrutinizing the voters.

The second link says."Counties such as Gilpin and Hinsdale have 110 percent of their populations registered to vote."  That could be for any county!  People die or move and they don't get taken off the rolls.  That's not voter fraud, that's just a lack of due diligence on the part of the local governments.  They go on to say, "All ten counties investigated by Media Trackers reported voter turnout greater than the national average. Nine out of ten also showed voter turnout well above the Colorado average."  Well, that's how one gets an AVERAGE. some are above and some are below.  There's nothing odd about that!

The next article says, "..once you untangle the meaning of its numbers, [it] actually touches on a situation well known to election officials and observers: outdated registration rolls that include inactive and ineligible voters."  Again, no votes were cast by people who shouldn't be voting.

My point is this:   The President has stated several times that three million illegal immigrants voted for Hillary Clinton.  Yet no one, anywhere,in the country can find cases of thirty or a hundred, or three hundred illegal aliens casting votes.  The claim is patently false and casts doubt on the accuracy of the election process needlessly, subverting the trust of the democratic process.

Is there anyone can can back up the president's claim of three million fraudulent votes, all by illegal immigrants?  How about one million?  Anybody?  Because without that;

The Conclusion: The President is a Liar.

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[M]

Even with the 5,000 votes removed Trump still had more. However that is not the problem. The problem is there is voter fraud on both sides and that must be rooted out. We deserve 'clean' elections.

Military votes are hit and miss and have been since my time in service.

https://arizonadailyindependent.com/2016/08/27/why-overseas-militar...

Here's one condemning Republicans;

https://www.thomhartmann.com/blog/2017/01/does-no-one-care-7-millio... 

The problem is not who the hacking benefits, The problem is any hacking invalidates the elections process and hurts the American people.

If you don't believe in wide spread hacking,then explain these videos then;

[marrand]

M,
You say “we deserve clean elections”. Of course. But we will never have them until the states open their full records as President Trump requested. There are many possible reasons for their refusal; having something to hide is one of them. You proved that wrong numbers were recorded in many instances, but this doesn’t approach the scale which Trump is claiming (and which many people believe). But until the records are opened, we will never know.

And then comes what sounds like a purely emotional scream: The president is a Liar. Not only on this site but all over the left wing press. It is not part of calm discussion, it is not part of political debate, it not even logical - just an emotional outburst. Understandable of course - afterall, Trump promised to dismantle everything Obama imposed on us.

But the most curious part is the redefinition of the words “lie” and “liar”. Now they are used by left indiscriminantly against their opponents. NYT twice published list of statements by Trump, and once by Obama, which they claimed to be lies. It really wasn’t a claim; rather, they redefined the word as it has been commonly used and understood. I personally read the top (worst) twenty quotes by NYT of what Trump said. None were lies. In all cases Trump was wrong and many times bragged, but they are not lies. When a fisherman tells you he caught a fish T H I S big (spreading his arms wide), do you call it a lie? You gave wrong answers on a test - were you lying? You promised your lady riches and fame, but you two wound up poor - were you lying? You are angry at a slim woman and call her fat - you call that a lie??? Of course not.

To impress their audience, they claimed Obama lied too. I read those ststements as well. Most of them weren’t lies either, just wrong statements. Example: Obama claimed oil production was highest in a certain year, bragging about his policy; NYT disputes it, saying it was really in a different year, and therefore Obama lied. He did not. NYT used these examples only to give credence for their redifinition, so they can use it to attack Trump, to give some justification for those who hate him.

Sure, Obama lied, but very selectively and only when he thought it was important to him. But that is a different matter. The key point is that when the left cries “lie!” or “liar!”, it is purely emotional.

[T Amnesia]

If republicans truly wanted free and fair elections, gerrymandering would not be such a problem in so many states.  That would be the first issue they would address since it's easily within their control and wherewithal to correct.  Yes, both sides do it, and it's wrong.  So, fix it.

But they don't want that, now do they?

Secondly, I was not screaming emotionally that Trump, the illegitimate emperor, is a liar.  I was stating that fact quietly.  Does it help if I whisper it for you? 

Trump is a liar. A pathological liar,.

I'm not sure if a italics and a smaller font means I'm whispering, but maybe it helps you.

[M]

Good one T.  That is the problem, neither side wants to have a fair and clean election. Also Both sides use Gerrymandering based on latest census to distribute precincts. I would rather see a system where a State has so many electoral votes as now, and the major vote getter gets the same percentage of electoral votes as the percentage of the votes they got. ALL candidates get the percentage of electoral votes the got in the same percentage as the votes they got. I think it would make for a fairer system that responded to the peoples choices, instead of a direct election where the highest populated States could dominate every election.

[marrand]

Some people, who really don’t understand the issue, will confuse “clean” elections with gerrymandering.

You were talking about falsifying votes and illegals voting. That can take place just as well if we removed all gerrymandering in the nation. On the other hand, you can make every single vote legal and proper, and still have gerrymandering.

To say let’s stop gerrymandering has nothing to do with illegal voting or falsifying voting records. To deny the later, the liberals will purposely redirect you to the former.

[M]

I agree Marrand, that is confusing the way I wrote it. It was intended to be two stand alone statements.

[marrand]

M,
I was referring to your earlier post, the one with many videos, starting with the sentence: “Even with the 5,000 votes removed…”. That’s where you mentioned “clean” elections, and voter fraud.

I reread the entire piece again. You weren’t confusing at all. Nowhere do you mention gerrtymandering, a totally different subject with totally different consequences.

You were very clear: “the problem in any hacking invalidates the election process….”, and then challenged to explain your videos. I haven’t seen any explanations so far.

The introduction of gerrymandering was purely an attempt to redirect the attention of the readers away from hacking, voter fraud and voting by illlegals.

[T Amnesia]

No, that was my comment that brought up gerrymandering.

I had pointed out that Trump had stated (and tweeted) many times that he would have had the majority of votes, but three million illegal immigrants voted illegally for Crooked Hillary Clinton.  Although he appointed a commission to investigate this, it was disbanded months later after finding.... nothing.  I have never found any reports that backed that claim up and challenged anyone to find anything related to widespread voter fraud in the neighborhood of 3,000,000 voters.

I also reiterated that the fraud I'm speaking of is large scale VOTER fraud carried out by those who cast votes. Not poll workers who falsify results or even voter registration fraud.   I'm talking about voters who purposely cast votes that they should not, because that is the common theme voiced by republicans when they insist that the only way to have legitimate elections is by scrutinizing the voters. 

Nobody came up with anything so we conclude that my point was proven, the statement was another lie,  and we move on.  I brought up gerrymandering, which compromises fair elections, and at the same time M brought up hacking voting machines and fraud committed by poll workers, neither of which are conducive to accurate vote counts. 

FURTHERMORE, this thread and my comments are aimed at the lies being told by our current administration.  I know who won the election.  I can't dispute how the votes of the Electoral College turned out.  There is no other narrative being pushed and if one wants to ignore my posts, I would urge you to do so.  I probably ignore yours, also.

[Mangus Colorado]

Have you ever been to California? My cousin has rentals and Mexican ladies clean the units for him. One told hem that she voted 20 times and was paid $ 20 per vote. California now issues drivers licenses to illegal aliens and they can automatically register to vote? 

You think there is not wide spread election fraud? How about those that were caught registering people and then recruiting then to vote for Democrats. Why is the voter turn out in ghettos so high far above the national averages? Hum food for thought? 

[Mangus Colorado]

Gerrymandering, logrolling and giving jobs to supporters are all Constitutional acts that go back to the times of the founders? So, now tell me again how they are bad and unlawful - oh you want to stop partisan politics?

You want a total Democratic voting system where the one with the most votes wins, you want the huge cites to elect our President and other officials. To hell with the small States they can move? Well the Constitution does not permit such actions. 

So, if you desire a 100% popular vote then put a Article V amendment up for ratification by 38 State legislatures? Oh, that would never pass now would it; the small States would not vote to reduce their protections from the majority?

[marrand]

Mangus,

Perhaps you have noted that the narrative pushed by this thread is the claim that Trump lied and is still lying. So, any topic, including immigration, is fair game to those who panic at the thought that Trump promised to completely undo Obama's agenda.

Some time ago I went to the "pope" of the liberal media (NYT) and carefully read the statements by Trump and Obama which they defined as lies. I posted my finding elsewhere on this site. None of the 20 worst claims regarding Trump were lies - merely wrong statements or brags. And most of statements by Obama were not lies either.

But those in panic will blindly follow liberal media's claims of Trump lying, and repeat it to whomever is in position to hear.