School Shootings and Cultural Rot

[Oren Long]

One of the Prime Rules of Management is, "Separate Problems from Symptoms.   Treat the Problem and the Symptom will go away".

School shootings are not the real problem.   The real problem is CULTURAL ROT that creates a cultural environment conducive to school shootings.   Trump, guns, and the NRA are just distractions, convenient targets designed to distract us from the underlying problem of CULTURAL ROT!  

Joseph Stalin once said something to the effect that America had three things Communism could never defeat, "Patriotism, Religion, and Cultural Values".   he said that if Communism could undermine those, America would fall of her own weight.   We are well on our way to making that happen.

In the "Olden Days" it was not uncommon to see rifles and shotguns in gun racks in students' pickup trucks in school parking lots.   Sometimes, the trucks were unlocked with the keys in the ignition.   it was not considered a problem.   Schools were not "Gun-Free Zones" AND there were no school shootings.   Discipline in school was strictly and rigidly enforced.   To be sure, there were the occasional fist fights, but no one ran to their truck to get a gun.

Everything has changed.   No one wants to address the problem, instead obsessing over the symptom of school shootings and the faux "problems:" of guns and the NRA.   Again, the problem is the pervasive cultural rot eating away at society, sort of like a flesh-eating bacteria.   Pornography, drugs, permissiveness, violent video games, violence in movies and on T.V., crudity, lawlessness, familial breakdown, godlessness, gangs, the erosion of social morays and standards, etc. are everywhere -- and getting worse.   

Politicians on both sides are focused on treating the symptoms, and perhaps that is the best we/they can do at this time.   I do not pretend to know the answer, but I do know that getting rid of guns and the NRA are not it.   I don't know that there is an answer.   At this point, perhaps all we CAN do is treat the symptoms, but we have to start somewhere.   AND, we must not allow ourselves to be distracted from coming up with real, practical solutions.

The Left's "solution" is to take guns away from everyone (though they will deny it) while simultaneously continuing to undermine American culture and values and thus exacerbating the problem that leads to the symptom of school shootings in the first place.

Trump wants to arm those teachers and staff who want to be trained and armed, but also wants to raise the age for buying a gun to 21.

Others advocate for putting armed cops in schools, but that hasn't worked as both Florida and Columbine showed.   In both cases the cops who were there did nothing until the killing was over.   Only armed teachers and staff could have stopped it.   If teachers and staff at Columbine, Sandy Hook, and Florida had been able to kill the attackers at the start, I dare say that we would not see more school shootings.   Killers love to kill, but don't want to be killed.   They seek fame and/or revenge, not death.

Raising the age to buy (or own, possess, or use) a gun to 21 is a BAD idea for three reasons:

First, we allow 18-20 year olds to join the military and be issued a fully automatic, military-grade weapon, but, when on leave, they would not be able to buy, own, possess, or use a gun.   Really?!

Second, such a law would undermine yet another American tradition, parents getting "junior" his first gun at an early age and teaching him safety and responsibility while the parents still had total control over the learning.

Third, under such a law, buying a gun for junior would be a "straw purchase" (buying a gun for a person who is not legally empowered to buy, own, possess, or use a gun), a serious felony.

Again, I don't have the answer, but I do know that getting rid of guns, the NRA, or restricting access by law-abiding citizens isn't it.

Oren

[Thomas Vincent Coffey]

Agree w/the core point; cultural rot is the driver of our deepening malaise and believe the vast majority of citizens understand this in their very marrow. Reflect a moment.

Our first Five Presidents were Washington, Adams, Jefferson, Madison and Monroe.

Our last Five are Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama and Trump.

What do those lineups say about the attitudes, behaviors and sentiments the majority of citizens value at this time; in our leaders???

---------------------------

Obviously the NRA it did not kill the children in Florida and elsewhere. As well, the 2nd Amendment is a core of the Bill of Rights. However sanctimony aside, the NRA is simply another DC lobby, supporting the firearms industry. Period.

The M-14, M-15 and M-16 ( which I used some 55 years ago ) were designed exclusively for military purposes and had absolutely no application in the civilian realm. None! The very same was true of the Kalashnikov, developed for the Soviet Military a decade earlier.

So, have the DoD aggressively enforce their contracts w/Colt, Remington and the rest; restricting, under severe penalty, the latter from selling these military weapons to citizens.

Agreed, guns are not the core problem.

Yet more high-powered assault weapons are hardly the answer.

[M]

Thomas, 

AR 15's are not assault weapons, they are cosmetic look alikes. I owned one 30 years ago. it is specifically made so it can not be converted to a fully automatic assault weapon. The Receiver is substantially different. The gas blocks are weaker and smaller, the barrel is not suited for automatic fire, it is really dangerous to use the M16  5.56 ammunition in it because of chamber headspace restrictions that could blow up the barrel from overpressure. The AR 15 was designed to use the Civilian look alike cartridge that is smaller, has a lighter grain weight projectile,shorter case length, and creates lower Chamber/Barrel pressures.  How come the idiot reporters don't do their homework and know this. While it's technically possible to rework an AR15 into a true assault weapon, it would take extensive machining and part swap outs by a qualified gun smith to do it, otherwise just using a bump stock and 5.56 ammo could blow the gun up in the shooters face.

The same goes for any other cosmetic look alike semi auto on the market.

[Thomas Vincent Coffey]

So what???

These weapons were developed by US Arms makers responding to DoD requests to upgrade the Rifles of our Infantry Units which is why I had to replace my M-14 w/an M-15 and later an M-16. The latter became the standard issue for the 101st Airborne and worked effectively, from my experience, under combat conditions plus heat and rain, notwithstanding your laundry list of shortcomings.

The core point remains that these weapons were never created for civilian use; anymore than an an M-60 Machine Gun or Grenade Launcher was and hardly belong in the hands of civilians; in my considered opinion.

[M]

That's exactly the point Thomas, The AR15 was specifically designed for civilian use just like any other semi-automatic. I also remember the rotten performance of the M16's which by the way was originally developed for a survival rifle for the B52 pilots and designed to be stowed under their seats.At least that's what Stoner said once. I also remember the terrible performance the originals without the chromed bolts heavier recoils buffers and the forward assist. They jammed regularly in the heat and the muck. The sights were poor compared to the M14's.Personally I preferred the M 40 with the starlight scope or a Unertl scope for daylight. I don't do any long range shooting now because my eyes are shot.I still hunt with iron sights since that's about the limit of my accuracy any more.

[Thomas Vincent Coffey]

Uninterested in going round and round on this; so a closing point.

Colt's advertising descriptive for it's AR-15, during the 60ties, read as follows:

THE AR-15 IS A FULLY AUTOMATIC, AIR-COOLED, GAS OPERATED, MAGAZINE FED  ASSAULT RIFLE; CREATED FOR THE US INFANTRY AND NOT AVAILABLE FOR CIVILIAN USE.

Colt marketed this product to military services in the USA and Western Europe w/ the concurrence of the DoD.

A few years later. as a consequence of financial setbacks, Colt, w/the agreement of DoD, developed and marketed a semi-automatic version of the AR-15 for exclusive use by law enforcement agencies.

Then almost a generation later, Colt obtained permission to market a semi-automatic model to civilians.

Yet the core point remains as the original Assault Rifle was never developed for civilian use. Never!

[M]

They also had the MX-18 which didn't do much of anything and was only tested. It differed in having a folding stock. I don't remember the ads for a fully automatic AR15, only the AR-16/M-16. A lot of police agencies went to a 9mm on the AR platform too. Some even went to the .308. Anyway, it's a moot point because the AR-15 civilian version that the likes of Feinstein condemns, is not an assault rifle, it only looks like one.

[Oren Long]

Thomas,

Thank you for your response, even though I disagree that getting rid (an impossibility) of AR-15s, their spin-offs, Kalishnikovs, etc. is even close to an answer.

First, where I live, ARs and AKs actually are used for hunting, home defense, etc.

Second, ARs have only been used in ONE school shooting, that being the most recent.   In all other mass school shootings, the weapons were pistols.   

Third, outlawing 'assault' weapons would only be the start.   Next would be large capacity magazines/weapons of ANY type.   AND, the Left would claim the right to define "large capacity".   Soon, sooner than we realize, we would be back to revolvers, if that.   I'm sure you realize that the end goal is the disarming of the People.

Fourth, we all know the core reason for the Second Amendment is to protect ourselves from an overreaching and autocratic government.   Hunting and self-defense has nothing to do with it.   

Fifth, in a way it is a pointless argument in the first place.   During the Revolution the revolutionaries and the British were, essentially, similarly armed.   The Colonists has muzzle-loading rifles and a few cannon.   So, too, did the British.   But now, any 'Rebels' would have rifles and pistols while the government would have machineguns, jets, bombers, helicopters, satellites, rockets, missiles, etc.   It would be a total mismatch.   Our only salvation would lie in whether the military would kill civilians at all and, if so, how many?   In other words, an armed and resistant public would force the military and the government to make that awful decision.   It would be a disaster no matter how it turns out.

As I said initially, the problem of Cultural Rot remains, with no end or cure in sight.   

Just my thoughts,

Oren

[M]

Oren,

I can attest to the fact that an armed public,even one using archaic weapons and tools can stand against the military might of the U.S.Military. Remember a little hiccup called the Viet-Cong Guerrillas? A lot of the weapons they used against us were almost stone age items.

However most people don't recognize the fact that any Revolution even our own against the British is doomed to failure unless there is an outside source helping us.,For us it was France. For Vietnam it was China and the USSR.

At best an armed public could hold out until the Government wearied of the fight and moved to fully exterminate the resistance, or world public pressure made them back off.

Another thing is the main focus about the 2nd amendment is that it's the shining Symbol of our American Freedoms. In that stance, it is a beacon to the rest of the world, that we are in control of our futures, self governed, and neither the elected nor the bureaucratic government is in control of us. If we lose the 2nd amendment, or even cripple it, we lose the SOUL of what America is, and what we are. Citizens not Subjects.

[M]

This is a bit off topic, but it speaks to cultural rot and corruption.if I remember correctly, the NYPD was investigating that allegation during the presidential campaign and the Lynch DOJ shut them down.

[M]

Something from Jim Lakes in response to article cited at end of post;

Let's not skirt around the issues and FACTS! 
1) The school had an armed guard.
2) There was plenty evidence that this guy was a threat to himself, the school and other people. (36 calls made to them about his threats and behavior. Reports from other students and other people.
3) There were three (3) other officers at the scene at the time of the shooting. Four (4) total.
4) How did he even get in the school in the first place when he was suspended, with a guard there?
5) Why was there a policy by the head of the Board of Education "NOT to arrest any students??"
6) Why would four (4) deputy sheriff's stand outside the school, knowing that there was shooting going on inside the building and NOT GO IN???
7) Why would police officers who arrived after the shooting stopped, be the only ones going inside when they "Quoted" they were puzzled why those four (4) sheriff's deputies were hiding behind their cars.
8) Why did it happen at a school where the Sheriff had jurisdiction who happened to be a leftist supporter of everyone who was a hard nose demorat socialist??
9) Why was it that the shooter just happened to chose an AR-15 as the shooting weapon? 
10) Why were none of the threats investigated by the Sheriff who was the chief law enforcement officer of the county???
11) How did the school resource officer, (deputy sheriff) know a description of the shooter and told other officers who it was?
12) How did he know it was the shooter unless he actually seen him shooting?

Think what you will, call me a nut case, a conspiracy nut or what ever you want. I have been to Pakistan, Lebanon, Lybia, S. Arabia, Egypt, Kuwait and a few more. I know what I know and here are some FACTS that you don't hear much about.
a) One of the officers who was there and did not go into the building is the head of CAIR (Council for American Islamic Relations) in Southern Floridia.
b) He has given training to muslims at masques in the area on shootings.
c) All four (4) deputies refused to go into the building while the shooting was taking place.
WHY? Because they didn't want to save the children or kill the shooter! They were a part of the "PLAN" to let this happen!
What is the thing that scares leftist socialists the most about the American people and how do they remove that fear??? SIMPLE! Take ALL their GUNS! And what would be the best way to accomplish that threat to their agenda? Talk the PEOPLE into giving up their semi-automatic rifles and especially their AR-15's and they know they cannot accomplish that goal unless there is something so serious that the people would say, OK, we don't need that weapon, like (17) dead kids. Then, what's next, semi-automatic hand guns until they are all gone.
Now, what does that have to do with muslims? Simple again, they can't do it on their own so they talked their "buddy" the sheriff, to hire muslims on his force, knowing they would not stop a killing field like this when and if it ever happened. And, who is capable of putting a plan like this together? None other than the hilldabeast and her minions.
She is so pissed that she lost the election, she will do ANYTHING to get back into control. A pure POWER FREAK that would plan an attack like this to help her get there.
Call me what you want, but think about what I have just said!!!

 

Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel Looks Like an Absolute Jerk. http://google.com/newsstand/s/CBIwwcLo5Tc

[Oren Long]

M and Thomas,

I think you are both missing the point.   You are falling into the exact trap the Left wants you to.   You are arguing over guns in general, 'assault' weapons, and the AR 15.

The core issue is three-fold, school shootings, Cultural Rot, and the Second Amendment.   The Left is propagandizing that assault weapons are common in school shootings when the fact is that pistols are the weapon of choice in all school shootings except for the Florida case.  They are using that exception to convince the public that the exception is the rule.   Then, they make the [faux] case that we need to ban all 'assault' weapons without defining exactly what an assault weapon is.  

Their end-game is patently clear, get rid of all guns and disarm the public, rendering the People defenseless against an autocratic, Socialist/Communist government.   In other words, their 'solution' to gun violence is to disarm the victims without ever addressing the underlying reasons for the violence in the first place.   In fact, violence serves their agenda by frightening the public into surrendering their right to self-defense.   And, it's working!

"Them that would surrender a little bit of freedom for security will soon find that they have neither freedom nor security" - Benjamin Franklin. 

The above is reinforced by the fact that the Left is now beginning to talk about getting rid of all semi-automatic weapons, including pistols.   And, the Left (largely ignorant on guns) wants to reserve the right to define 'assault' and all other weapons.  

The Left's agenda is so transparent that even I can see through it, yet we allow ourselves to be distracted by every wild accusation, putting ourselves eternally on the defense.

Meanwhile, everyone ignores the Cultural Rot that creates school shootings in the first place.   As I pointed out in the first sentence of my Discussion Post, "Separate problems from symptoms.   Treat the problem and the symptom will go away."

We have allowed ourselves to be distracted by the symptom of school shootings.   We are now obsessed with how to DEFEND against them WHEN they happen, but never talking about WHY they happen or how to PREVENT them.   

As I also pointed out, guns used to be everywhere, including in school parking lots, but there were no school shootings.   Why not?   No one wants to talk about that!

Gentlemen, we are being played like a cheap piano!

Oren

 

[Thomas Vincent Coffey]

W/respect, I'm not missing any point.

Modern Infantry Rifles are rapid fire assault weapons; the very essence of their purpose.

They were never originally developed for civilian use; despite what has evolved over time; any more than machine guns or grenade launchers were.

Suggest we leave hunting rifles and pistols alone and in the hands of those who desire them for their own reasons while adhering to the original purpose of assault rifles; thereby preventing their sale to civilians.