Citizens Dedicated To Preserving Our Constitutional Republic
Reprinted with permission of author;
Tags:
Jack,
I agree with the exception of the Arabs keeping Mathematics alive during the Dark Ages when the Church rules supreme and basically killed anyone who disagreed with their Dogmatic Tenets of the Faith. In fact I personally don't believe there was ever a period where Church teachings and Scientific discovery worked together. Although I may be wrong, I also believe that Humanities basic traits have not and will not change from what they are.
The Scholastics, who were Catholic Priests, were also mathematicians and scientists; including Copernicus, Albert Magnus, Roger Bacon, Robert Groosteste, William of Ockham; among hundreds more. The wisdom of Greece and Rome was nurtured and re-invigorated in the great Universities at Cordoba, Louvain, Paris, Lisbon, Milan, Vienna; among others, which set the stage for the Renaissance.
The Arabs had about as much impact on the cultivation of knowledge as they have at present and the epithet Dark Ages is an ignorant slander.
Thomas,
You forget it was a Persian that first explained the rules for algebra during the dark ages. The word "algebra" is derived from the Arabic word Al-Jabr, and this comes from the treatise written in 830 AD/CE by the medieval Persian mathematician, Muhammad ibn Mūsā al-Khwārizmī, entitled, in Arabic Kitāb al-muḫtaṣar fī ḥisāb al-ğabr wa-l-muqābala, which can be translated as The Compendious Book on Calculation by Completion and Balancing. The treatise provided for the systematic solution of linear andquadratic equations.
Granted forms of Algebra go back to Babylon as the oldest known form.
As to the rest of your statement, yes they were, but, they were only allowed to teach what Church Dogma allowed them to teach. Or, did you forget what they did to Galileo? Also look what the early church did to Hypatia thus setting back humanity Centuries.
OK, give the Persian his due.
Despite the Galileo sob story, advanced by those w/an ax to grind about the Church of Rome, Sacred Doctrine/Dogma has no inherent conflict w/Mathematics and Science and never did. NEVER. Both seek revealed Truth from different perspectives. Galileo's argument w/the Catholic Church was self inflicted and attributable almost exclusively to his abrasive know it all persona and big mouth, a hereditary trait according to his biographers. Bacon, a Priest. was at least as controversial as Galileo and got along just fine w/the Curia.
While Galileo remained a genius, perhaps he learned something about himself; which is what all need to do from time to time!.
As for Hypathia's death setting humanity back centuries, what the hell are you talking about?????
Thomas,
I disagree with your remarks about Galileo, the church kept him on a short string because he was explaining that the Church's Earth Centric position was incorrect and that went directly to the heart of the dogmatic tenets the church held and taught at that time. I even remember the Church taught that bathing was a sin at one point and the result was the "Stench of Piety".
As for Hypathia,l Hypatia of Alexandria was the first woman to make a substantial contribution to the development of mathematics. She was the teacher that rediscovered the planets moved around the sun. Hypatia came to symbolize learning and science which the early Christians identified with paganism. In 412 Cyril (later St Cyril) became patriarch of Alexandria. However the Roman prefect of Alexandria was Orestes and Cyril and Orestes became bitter political rivals as church and state fought for control. Hypatia was a friend of Orestes and this, together with prejudice against her philosophical views which were seen by Christians to be pagan, led to Hypatia becoming the focal point of riots between Christians and non-Christians. Hypatia. A few years later, according to one report, Hypatia was brutally murdered by the Nitrian monks who were a fanatical sect of Christians who were supporters of Cyril. According to another account (by Socrates Scholasticus) she was killed by an Alexandrian mob under the leadership of the reader Peter. What certainly seems indisputable is that she was murdered by Christians who felt threatened by her scholarship, learning, and depth of scientific knowledge. This event seems to be a turning point.
From Biography in Encyclopaedia Britannica;Whatever the precise motivation for the murder, the departure soon afterward of many scholars marked the beginning of the decline of Alexandria as a major center of ancient learning. In addition to the joint work with her father, we are informed by Suidas that Hypatia wrote commentaries on; Diophantus's Arithmetica, on Apolloinus's Conicsand on Ptolemy's astronomical works. The passage in Suidas is far from clear and most historians doubt that Hypatia wrote any commentaries on Ptolemy other than the works which she composed jointly with her father. therefore, she is one of the giants you have credited in your Classical world theme, in fact a major giant. So don't intimate the Church did not actively suppress Scientific knowledge for it's own purposes of control and in doing so held back the advancement of knowledge if it did not agree with Church Dogma, Bacon born circa 1210, ( actually a Franciscan Friar one of the earliest European advocates of the modern scientific method inspired by Aristotle and by later scholars such as the Arab scientist Alhazen ) generally agreed with Church Dogma and got permission or at least tacit approval of the Church to modernize the Dogma.
M w/respect; I completely reject two of your assertions, namely;
* that the catalyst for the punch up between Galileo and Rome involved an issue of Doctrine/Dogma, since it most emphatically did not.
As a smart lad like you is certainly aware, Doctrinal matters requiring the Papal intervention of Infallibility arise but rarely, always being a response to heretical nostrums contravening Faith and Morals.The argument between Galileo and Rome involved Perception and Planetary Motion. Had cooler heads prevailed on both sides, it would never have become a fight. My assertion is that the larger share of the blame belongs to Galileo, notwithstanding his genius, because of his 'my way or the highway' persona. The Church of Rome, being the religious leader and representative of the 'other worldly aspirations' for some 100+ million souls in mid-16th century Europe, had to be eternally mindful of the impact of revolutionary ideas on the psyche of the faithful; a reality Galileo was oblivious to.
*that Hypathia's murder; those responsible being a matter of opinion; set humanity back centuries.
In 415, the Western Roman Empire, although in decline, still mattered while its Eastern Empire was ascendant. Over the next 300 years the European Tribes laid the foundations for the nations that evolved, converted to Roman Catholicism and repelled the Muslims in the Balkans, Spain and France; never losing a beat. Humanity was hardly set back by her sad end.
Thomas,
Considering that until the first Vatican council in 1869 Papal Infallibility was not dogmatically defined so I prefer to believe that both sides were equally pig headed for political and philosophical reasons, Church Dogmatic Tenets not withstanding.. As far as your assumption about Hypathia's murder, I believe you misread what exactly the stated decline was. It was the movement away from Alexandria as the center of science and philosophy, and learning. As some believe, it was because the Nitrian Monks were responsible for destroying the Alexandrian Library scrolls, and the resultant loss of it's written knowledge because they considered that knowledge pagan learnings deleterius to the church's teachings. That plus the Corruption of the Roman State and the division into two empires with two emperor's also had a deleterious effect on the science and recorded knowledge with the Church being the only comprehensive accumulation of knowledge and hindering advancements that would tend to lessen it's control both over the thrones and over the faithful.
M.
Kudos to you for your soundly articulated counter-arguments; both intelligent and passionate.
Peace!
Thomas,
Thank you, it's truly a pleasure exchanging ideas with you as well. I look forward to debating many more intelligent, incisive and differing viewpoints with you in the future.
Respectfully,
M
A new world?
"For the first time in history, we are no longer at the top: Muslims have overtaken us," Monsignor Vittorio Formenti said in an interview with the Vatican newspaper L'Osservatore Romano. Formenti compiles the Vatican's yearbook.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/vatican-islam-has-overtaken-catholicism/
Legislative News
Congressional Quarterly
C-SPAN
Roll Call
Stateline.org
The Hill
Washington Post
Politics Section
Boston Globe
Dallas News
Denver Post
Los Angeles Times
Minneapolis Star Tribune
Stop Island Park Wildlife Overpasses
Seattle Times
NY Times
Washington Post
Washington Times
USA Today
Beltway Buzz
CQ Politics
First Read
The Hotline
The Note
The Page
Washington Wire
Mike Allen's Playbook
Politico
Roll Call
The Hill
CNN Political Ticker
The Swamp
The Fix
Washington Whispers
Fish Bowl DC
Online Political Sites
Alternative Press Index
Capitol Hill Blue
CommonDreams.org
Digg.com Politics
Drudge Report
Political Insider
Political Wire
Politico
PopPolitics
Real Clear Politics
Salon.com
Slate
Stateline.org
TCOT Report
TomPaine.com
US Politics Guide
© 2025 Created by WTPUSA.
Powered by