10 Suggestions To Stop/Fight Serial Shooters

[M]

1. We know Gun Free Zones are "Soft Targets" We need to harden and armor those targets to make it very dangerous for any serial shooter to ply their murderous trade within, until we can remove gun free zones

2. We need to have "Shooter Drills" in schools to set 'Workable' procedures to protect innocent lives. All First Responders Police, Fire,Ambulance, need to be an integral part of setting up and overseeing these drills from initial alerts, to All Clear notifications.

3. We need to have volunteers on School and other Gun Free Zone Staffs become Psych evaluated similar to what police go through, Trained in Firearm Laws and Proficiency, and trained to interdict potential shooters to stop them before shooting starts or use deadly force on them if they start shooting.

4. We also need to train and equip other staff personnel to use Less-Than-Lethal devices like Stun Guns, Tasers, Military Grade Pepper Sprays while they are at work.

5. We must allow the public to have access to non-lethal devices like 18% Oleoresin Pepper Sprays, Stun Guns, Intermittent/Limited Shock Time Taser Devices, etc.

6.We need to set up minimum standards for ALL policing agencies on how to respond to information of troubled individuals, This would entail a Definitive set of immutable rules and procedures designed to find potential shooters.

7. In conjunction with #6, We must carefully study what is common among the shooters of the past, and use that as a starting point to figure out all the other constants and causative factors, contributing to the psychological/mental problems of Young/Serial Shooters.

8. We need to have an immutable set of guidelines the politicians can never hijack (preferably in a Constitutional Amendment Form) to determine when interventions can be conducted without hurting others Constitutional Rights, and not just 2nd Amendment rights. At least 3/4 of the public must agree to this for it to become valid.

9. We need to return to the time when Gun Safety and Gun Responsibility was taught in schools starting in kindergarten and going on through higher education. It must be mandatory and non-political  in nature.

10. We must re-evaluate how the MSM presents information on shootings so they don't sensationalize reports, nor exaggerate/propagandize reports to help insure those reports will not create copy cat shooters. The Reports must also be technically correct in ALL aspects. Remember the 1st Amendment does not cover falsehoods or outright lies.

We MUST Do Something, Lets start here.

M

[marrand]

M,

Oh, I didn't realize #8 could be used to control how Psychologists do their evaluations. The mental helath issue didn't appear there as such. I agree with you that we would need a constitutional amendment to ensure that politicians "can never hijack" those guidelines.

Yes, it would work for the politicians and elected officials, but NOT for the psychologists nor the press, especially the liberal media. Such guidelines were tried once and failed. Remember the Goldwater Rule, issued specifically to psyhologists/psychiatrists by their own professional organizations? To never never formulate a diagnosis without having talked with the patient? This came about because the shrinks, goaded by the left wing press, pronounced Goldwater mentally unfit; over thousand other shrinks agreed in writing. After that, came this rule. It is still in effect today. You think it works?

Haven't you heard where these shrinks, all educated in the left wing universities, are now going on the media like CNN and pronouncing Trump mentally unfit? That they have no problem at all in prostituting their profession? Do you realize that to our media today this is perfectly acceptable? Acceptable to flaunt the guidline issued by the psychologists/psychiatrists themselves? And you think a constitutional amendment would stop that?

No M, the amendment you are talking about would NOT stop the press from hiring shrinks to do their work, and would not stop the shrinks from pushing their vile agenda. They would claim freedom of the press, and you lose.

[M]

Marrand, 

Actually, if it was codified in an amendment it would have the force of law and prosecutions could deter the press and mental health professionals from abusing their stations in life.

M

[marrand]

M,

Sorry, but I disagree with you again. Such codification will NOT stop those determined to control us or transform our society. We have plenty of laws governing immigration and gun ownership. Weren't they ignored by Obama and his liberals? Laws and amendments matter not to those determined to change us. You could never prevent licensed psychiatrists, hired by a duly elected socialistic government, from testifying that you, M, are mentally unfit. Right in the courtroom under oath!! And now you will have to spend time and money to prove you are mentally stable, just to keep your rightfully owned weapon. Would a shrink, wrongfully accusing you, be guilty of abusing his station in life? Of course; but freedom of speech, freedom of the "experts" to voice their expertise when called upon in a court, could never stop them from doing just that. If they want to hurt you bad enough, they will. The answer is not in codification; the answer is in electing governments who are not intent on controlling us.

[M]

Marrand,

That's where the written and clear guidelines come into effect. Being written clearly enough to preclude interpretation. Yes I do know that is impossible at present state of the art, but it should be tried until we all can agree on the proper wording in about another 150 years or so.

Point two, Governments by their very nature are bent on controlling us and that's why we have a Bill of Rights to protect us and our rights.

We actually have too many gun laws on the books across the USA. What we need is a clear set of standard laws/regulations that protect the individuals Constitutional Rights, and the legal right to self protection with deadly force.  I believe we need to pass the Reciprocity act and have the States held to a sensible set of laws on Self Protection, Castle Doctrine, and basic fire arm proficiency training included in it. These basics would not prevent States from enacting fire arm rules for hunting,target shooting, or advertised gun restricted areas like bars serving primarily alcohol, businesses that don't want guns on their premises etc. For an oversimplified example; Permitted gun carriers are not allowed to interdict a crime unless there is a life actively threatened. or You may not remove your firearm from it's holster unless it's requested by an officer of the Law or is being used to protect yourself or others whose lives are actively being threatened. As I said these are oversimplified as definitions would be needed to explain what is and is not acceptable legal behavior. and everyone who gets a permit in any State would have to have a knowledge of these universal laws for reciprocity carry.

[M]

Source; https://www.yahoo.com/news/nra-chief-wayne-lapierre-fbi-183540808.html

This article ( https://www.westernjournal.com/israel-2-school-attacks-44-years-her...;) needs to be reviewed by both sides of the gun argument. Implementing it could save many lives.

Synopsis; In 1974, Palestinian terrorists took over the Netiv Meir Elementary School in what has been called the “Ma’alot Massacre,” which left 22 children dead and many others injured.

The attack forced Israel to come up with a solution in order to prevent such a situation from ever happening again. The nation requires its schools to have a security system, and that policy is still going strong after 40 years.

The results are clearly evident, as there have only been two successful attacks at Israeli schools since 1974, according to Dr. Ted Noel, writing in American Thinker. Noel wrote that “in both cases, the bad guys were killed by armed teachers.”

According to Red State, Israel’s Ministry of Education funds school security, which ranges from shelters and fences to armed and trained guards at every gate.

“The Israelis saw this and got busy,” Noel wrote. “They knew that the vast majority of terror attacks are stopped not by police, but by armed civilians.”

“So they started training teachers in firearms use,” he added. “Those teachers took out the bad guys in the two incidents since the Ma’alot Massacre.”

Noel wrote that once a shooter is no longer in a “free fire zone,” the situation — and the possible outcome — is likely to change, as he becomes a potential target.“On top of that, he doesn’t know which of the staff might be ready to shoot, or where they might be coming from,” Noel said. “In short, only an idiot would try to shoot up a school with a trained staff of shooters.”

RELATED:“Since the awful Our Lady of the Angels elementary school fire of 1958, which killed 92 students and 3 nuns, there has not been a large casualty school fire in America,” Cortes wrote. “Why? Because we took myriad precautions since then: better fire exits, more extinguishers and sprinklers, routine fire drills, etc.”“Water squelches a fire,” he added. “And only a gunman, I would argue, can stop another gunman.”

[Virginia Foulk]

Replying to MARRAND,I agree with your concerns, so am I. My rationale is that the ones with the mental or emotional problems had been experiencing outside causes, like bullying, not having a friend, not part of the "IN" group, or the jock persona base - for years. So this is where I believe studies should be done and corrections taken. Case in point, I joined a Girl Scout group, being very shy, my mom decided to become a helper. She didn't want me to be hurt or overlooked by the others.  Didn't last long, I quit - wasn't for me. What if she hadn't joined and I was left out of the group, or was ignored. Would I have turned out differently? Probably not, because I was a loner anyway. Honest, I'm not that person now - don't push me.  Anyway, I'm sure many have seen the bullying and nasty actions being directed toward others. 

Any of you remember THE MOD SQUAD? Well, Mike Cole was a student at Marquette School and later, East High School, under his birth name  - same schools I attended . Anyway, he was a bully, and in 4th grade, he saw me walking home. I wore glasses and my upper teeth were all in. He called me a four-eyed, buck-toothed monster. Really hurt me, so I pushed him into a mud puddle nearby.  Guess that is why I still hate wearing glasses.  My family participated in camping, and fishing and going on trips. Always doing things together. That kept me from having mental or emotional problems. A family together.

A child enduring being left out, called names, pushed around and does not have a family that will support them, what is there for them? And to have this go on for years, well.

Anyway, I'm still in agreement with you about the concerns of Government taking over. It cannot be trusted.   

They cannot replace the family, the friends a child needs.

[M]

Something from Jim Lakes to put things in perspective about defending the innocents made vulnerable by Joe Biden's Gun Free Zone Act of 1990 and a current suggestion by Trump to raise the age to 21 for long gun ownership;

As the old saying goes, "Just one more bite out of the apple." Which, is what the leftists know and keep trying. Those countries that took away the peoples guns had the "power" to do so.

I.E.:

In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.

China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.

Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million educated people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

56 million defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control:

And, we all know that this is the ultimate goal of the leftists & socialists.

The real problem is the changing of the "MORALS" of the American people away from God's laws. Gay marriage, transgender acceptance,pornography, abortion, which has murdered over 63 MILLION children and on and on, which has taken place in the last 50 years and until we realize this fact, it will only get worse and worse. You cannot defy God and expect to still be a favored nation.

Jim

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Something From Mangus Colorado;

Come on gentlemen, this is pure politics. Criminals buy guns in any ghetto in America, there are huge black markets for guns. If you go to the right ones you can buy fully automatic machine guns and even grenades?

What gun laws have prevented a criminal from having a gun? How many illegal possession charges have been filed in the Chicago courts over the last 10 years - the answer is not many I bet?

I prefer the training of all citizens as school kids to use and respect guns like Switzerland all adults have a military weapon in their homes?

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Something from Oren Long;

Gentlemen,

This is one of the few areas where I disagree with the President.   Trump is allegedly cow-towing to those who want to raise the age to buy a rifle to 21.

IF such a law passed it would certainly also include "own, possess, and/or use".   This is as stupid as stupid gets.   Think about it.

The vast majority of military rank and file are under age 21.   Such a law would mean that an 18 year old could join the military and be issued a fully automatic rifle, BUT, when on leave, could not buy, possess, own, or use even a single-shot rifle.   'Under-age' members of the military could legally kill all the enemy humans he/she found necessary, but could not go hunting when on leave.   Really?!

What if a movement was started among the 'under-age' military members to just turn in their issued weapons to be in total compliance with the law?   It could raise havoc. 

Someone needs to point this out!

Oren

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Jim Lakes reply to Oren;

Oren,

I too, disagree with this issue.

One way to eliminate this issue though, is to make the law read, "this law does not apply to those individuals who are actively a part or enlisted into any branch of the US military and if discharged during a period before their 21 first birthday also does not apply once they are discharged honorably."

This would accomplish two things. Exclude those that are on active duty or honorably discharged and also encourage those under 21 to enlist in our military.

Again, I don't agree with doing this, but IF it passes, make the exception above. If a person enlists before the age of 21 can train and fight for our country, they should be allowed to own a gun, period, and this exclusion would correct that issue.

Just my thoughts, I could be wrong.

Jim

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For my part I can see both sides of the issue. Much to be said about increasing to 21 to allow for youthful brains to fully develop. Much to be said about restricting those trained in military from being able to own before 21. 

Possibly exempt military personnel from the law as police are exempted from gun free zones and allow 18 year olds to own under proper Adult/Parental supervision.

M

[marrand]

M,

And there goes marrand, disagreeing with you again. Oh dear!

Nothing can be said about increasing age of ownership to 21. It should NOT be done. If a guy is crazy and unbalanced at the age of 18, a few more years won't make him sane. Let the current age limits stand.

[M]

Marrand,

I love dissent/disagreement on my statements. It keeps me honest. Please keep up the good work.

[M]

Editor

The Bakersfield Californian

Whenever that carpetbagger LTE writer shows up with his anti-Trump diatribes, I do my share of chafing. Obama has taken responsibility for a few things - the difference is he never did anything about it. Trump is holding listening sessions first with parents and students from shooting sites; second with law enforcement people an third with governors and attorneys general. How much more Presidential and responsibility taking can you get? We sure don’t want to rush bills through until all these inputs have been thoroughly discussed and gelled into a cogent, constitutional and moral statute.

Maybe a little lesson in history will help (doubtful) for those who want to end the 2nd Amendment or make it impossible for the citizen to defend him or herself. Even Jesus had a handle on it long before guns were invented in Matthew 12:29 and Mark 9:40: “How can anyone enter a strong man’s house and make off with his property unless he first ties him securely? Only then can he rob his house. He who is not with me is against me…”

Jesus experienced and warned us to expect to be hated as evil cannot abide the good works of others - including our President..

A LITTLE GUN HISTORY

In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.

China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.

Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million educated people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

56 million defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control:

You won't see this data on the US evening news, or hear politicians disseminating this information.

Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding citizens.

Take note my fellow Americans, before it's too late!

The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind them of this history lesson.

With guns, we are "citizens". Without them, we are "subjects".

During WWII the Japanese decided not to invade America because they knew most Americans were ARMED!

SWITZERLAND ISSUES EVERY HOUSEHOLD A GUN!

SWITZERLAND'S GOVERNMENT TRAINS EVERY ADULT THEY ISSUE A RIFLE.
SWITZERLAND HAS THE LOWEST GUN RELATED CRIME RATE OF ANY CIVILIZED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD!!!

You're not imagining it, history shows that governments always manipulate tragedies to attempt to disarm the people.

[M]

On Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 1:50 PM, Jim Lakes  wrote:

Let's not skirt around the issues and FACTS! Oren is right about all the issues he listed, HOWEVER: .

1)     The school had an armed guard.

2)     There was plenty evidence that this guy was a threat to himself, the school and other people. (36 calls made to them about his threats and behavior. Reports from  other students and other people.

3)      There were three (3) other officers at the scene at the time of the shooting. Four (4) total.

4)      How did he even get in the school in the first place when he was suspended, with a guard there?

5)      Why was there a policy by the head of the Board of Education "NOT to arrest any students??"

6)      Why would four (4) deputy sheriff's stand outside the school, knowing that there was shooting going on inside the building and NOT GO IN???

7)      Why would police officers who arrived after the shooting stopped, be the only ones going inside when they "Quoted" they were puzzled why those four (4) sheriff's deputies were hiding behind their cars.

8)      Why did it happen at a school where the Sheriff had jurisdiction who happened to be a leftist supporter of everyone who was a hard nose demorat socialist??

9)      Why was it that the shooter just happened to chose an AR-15 as the shooting weapon?      

10)    Why were none of the threats investigated by the Sheriff who was the chief law enforcement officer of the county???

11)    How did the school resource officer, (deputy sheriff) know a description of the shooter and told other officers who it was?

12)    How did he know it was the shooter unless he actually seen him shooting?

Think what you will, call me a nut case, a conspiracy nut or what ever you want. I have been to Pakistan, Lebanon, Lybia, S. Arabia, Egypt, Kuwait and a few more. I know what I know and here are some FACTS that you don't hear much about.

a)    One of the officers who was there and did not go into the building is the head of CAIR (Council for American Islamic Relations) in Southern Floridia.

b)    He has given training to muslims at masques in the area on shootings.

c)    All four (4) deputies refused to go into the building while the shooting was taking place.

WHY? Because they didn't want to save the children or kill the shooter! They were a part of the "PLAN" to let this happen!

What is the thing that scares leftist socialists the most about the American people and how do they remove that fear??? SIMPLE! Take ALL their GUNS! And what would be the best way to accomplish that threat to their agenda? Talk the PEOPLE into giving up their semi-automatic rifles and especially their AR-15's and they know they cannot accomplish that goal unless there is something so serious that the people would say, OK, we don't need that weapon, like (17) dead kids. Then, what's next, semi-automatic hand guns until they are all gone.

Now, what does that have to do with muslims? Simple again, they can't do it on their own so they talked their "buddy" the sheriff, to hire muslims on his force, knowing they would not stop a killing field like this when and if it ever happened. And, who is capable of putting a plan like this together? None other than the hilldabeast and her minions.

She is so pissed that she lost the election, she will do ANYTHING to get back into control. A pure POWER FREAK that would plan an attack like this to help her get there.

Call me what you want, but think about what I have just said!!!

Jim