The Birth of A New Party.

[kevin kiernan]

I am wondering how long in years , will it take to have a new party win. I can see the division in both parties.I believe that if a new party adopts principals that will draw from both parties would bring success very soon.The Libertarian party fits that bill. The Libertarian party has principals based on individual liberty, small government, fiscal responsibility, and strong value in the constitution.With the establishment showing themselves in both parties is probably the time to do it...It will take conservatives and liberals to realize that these principals mean more than our selfish stances on social issues. We must realize that we all need to stand up for each others rights to liberty...That is how our country made it this far....I for one am ready for the revolution that will take place after the establishment steal the election from We The People.....What say you

[charles royer]

spot on as usual!

[M]

Thomas,

We actually need to retain the 15th amendment, and it does not qualify as an instrument of destruction.

The 15th Amendment to the Constitution granted African American men the right to vote by declaring that the "right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any state on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude." However that could not have been dictated to the states until the 14th was ratified because the States could nullify anything the Federal Government decided to impose.

[jack ludwig]

Thomas, conservative principles for this discussion refers to political values as does this forum. If you want to talk about First Principles I suggest you find another forum. I agree with M,  The original intent of the Constitution was and still should be to restrain the excesses of central/federal government. Instead of wasting everyone's time trying to make others look smaller than you why don't you, at least, offer some suggestions how we move forward to achieve our political objectives. M has clearly provided his views and although I don't 100% see the light at the end of the tunnel, I don't discredit his idea. By the way Thomas, family unity is not just a conservative principal, even some liberals follow that principal. 

The original intent of the Constitution was and still should be to restrain the excesses of central/federal government. 

[Thomas Vincent Coffey]

Emphatically I'm hardly attempting to make anyone, even the thin skinned, either smaller or larger or anything in between. This is a discussion forum that exchanges ideas which is what I'm doing. By the way the original minds who articulated Principled Conservatism beginning w/Pericles, Solon, Cicero, on to Burke and DeMaistre, were politicians who knew in their very soul, that principles always trump politics. ALWAYS!

So let me repeat my earlier suggestion, as to how we might escape our current morass, since you're continually seeking guidance/instruction/suggestions.

When citizens internalize and understand the vitality of the timeless wisdom of the ages and apply these principles and rules to measure the quality of any candidate standing for office, we will get change in the composition of the WH, the Senate and the House and then the type of Justices nominated. 

All change starts w/the self. There are no magic bullets, potions and panaceas out there. And most certainly it is not going to be found in the third phrase, of the fourth clause, of the fifth sentence, of the sixth paragraph, of the seventh Article of the Constitution or any other governing document, notwithstanding how worthy and worthwhile they are. Believing otherwise is infantile fantasy.

We have reached our current nadir following more than 100 years of intellectual corruption and sloth, self absorption and by accepting the false as true.

Another anecdote from history. In 1934, after a series of crushing defeats by the Kuomintang Armies, Mao-z-Dung led his followers more than 6000 km on the fabled Long March to the farthest reaches of north west China, There they brooded and reflected for years, growing stronger by the day. When they emerged they swept all before them and today rule China.

A solution to our problem lies in reflection which creates self realization, the basis for action and resolve.

[jack ludwig]

Thomas, I can assure you I constantly reflect inward with self-realization. I always know how I am doing with respect to meeting my expectations. I am no different then millions  of others who I am sure also reflect inward with self-realization. I don't believe that will provide the solutions. I often ponder why are there so many individuals who consider themselves failures with little hope. Why do most people see the negatives they face before they even consider the positives they might have. I have many opinions of why but no solutions on how to change such thinking. If you can offer some logical solutions to this problem I am more than willing to listen to your opinions. I have no thin skin Thomas, I am fully comfortable in my own skin.

[Thomas Vincent Coffey]

Hey, how about doing me (and everybody else) a humongous favor? Pretend tomorrow is New Year's Day and make a resolution to ignore all my posts indefinitely, which I'll gladly reciprocate!!!

Lord have mercy!!! 

[M]

Thomas,

Historically you are correct about who originally postulated the embryonic 'Principled Conservatism'. However we must concern ourselves with today's Political Conservatism, or lack thereof. I personally feel we need to oppose the Liberal Socialist Progressive Elites Agendas, and also those in Congress and State Legislatures who condone and actively or passively promote them if we want to remain a Free Nation under God, and remain self governed with Constitutionally protected Individual Liberties!.

[Thomas Vincent Coffey]

M, you make an astute point regarding our 'political conservatism' which has nothing to do w/ principled conservatism born in antiquity. When our media/political types say 'conservative", you know they don't know their ass from their elbow, as it's nothing but a cliche' they were told to repeat by some staff flunky.

Those of principle are confronted by soft left secular progressive republicans and hard left totalitarian socialist democrats, a choice of small degree which is why nothing changes for the better in DC. Sadly, average citizens, who are non-ideological, are utterly oblivious to this reality.

Indeed our State Legislatures, the preferred vehicle of governance envisioned by Jefferson and Madison, are certainly the fitting place to begin our long march.

In contrast a real alternative is to do nothing which most assuredly will terminate our experiment in representative governance, promoting freedom and liberty.

Reflect that the Greeks, arguably the wisest who ever walked this earth, created democracy which endured among them for 450 years. We are a tad past 200 years. 

[M]

Rhodes,

The original intent of the Constitution was and still should be to restrain the excesses of central/federal government. Never forget that in actuality the States are sovereign nations unto themselves and have conceded some of their powers to band together for protection and commerce advantages they would not have if they retained the model of European nations before the half measure of the European Common Market in it's attempt to emulate American unity.

[Rhodes]

"The original intent of the Constitution was and still should be to restrain the excesses of central/federal government."

Then explain the existence in the document of the electoral college. That is very blatantly to control the popular vote should we unwashed get out of line and yet remain inside the letter of law. State representation could have been achieved without an actual body of electors by just assigning a point value to each state determined the same way electors are assigned, but it wasn't so think on that a a bit.

 

Telling you guys it aint what it pretended to be.

[M]

Rhodes,

You can look this up on Google if you don't believe me. Originally the President,Vice President,and the Senate, were to be elected by other than popular vote. The President was usually the one who got the most votes and the Vice President was the second runner up even if he was not in the same party. Even though the public voted for the Presidential Candidate, it was the electoral College that did and still does elect him. However the Electors in the Electoral College do not have to vote the way the public voted. There have been instances where the popular vote getter was not elected. One of the reasons for the electoral college was the time it took back then to tally up and record the votes from all the farthest States.

[Virginia Foulk]

So, another reason for the State Conventions.