We The People USA

Citizens Dedicated To Preserving Our Constitutional Republic

I have heard many out there, from pundits to the average Joe asking "Why We Lost". I have heard this from Democrats of all parts of the spectrum as well as many so called Republicans, so I will effort to answer this question.

I have heard all kinds of explanations, from misreading polling data, to angry white men, and they're all wrong. The question now is where to begin. There are a plethora of places to start so lets begin with the Democratic Party.

First lets dispel a little misconception, it is the Democratic party that supported slavery, while the republicans supported civil rights, the Democratic party supported segregation, it was a Democrat Colonel that started the KKK as a Military wing of the Democratic party in the south, targeting not just any random black individual but aspiring black political figures and the Republicans that supported them,this is Historical fact, not supposition, look it up in any history book. What does this have to do with today? The secret to understanding this question is understanding the Democrat party never abandoned slavery, they merely molded it into a 21 century version based on economics instead of race, you see the economics based slavery is so much less messy than slavery based on race, creed or sex. This is where it gets messy, because many of what we call "establishment" Republicans have followed the lead of their left side counterparts and joined the ranks of what are now called the "elites". These elites are both Democrat and Republicans now that feel their "high education" allows them the privilege of telling others how to live their lives, "We know better better because were educated" is often the explanation. Ironically this could not be farther from the truth, education does not denote intelligence, just ask anyone who live in a college town, they will explain. Is this not the same position as the slave master directing the slave? They take from the fruits of your labor to distribute what they decide is equitable, don't pay what they decide is a fair portion and they hunt you down and take what they feel is  theirs, and they now tell you what you must spend your money on, because they know better. Set aside ownership documentation and this explanation fits the everyday lives of every working american, and none suffer worse than the working poor, who merely sit in wait for the day when then their small gains toward financial independence are taxed away from them. The Democrats pander to minority's, promising them hope, the establishment republicans pander to the independent business owner promising them hope, all the while both figuring how to take as much as they can of what you have to feed their own greed and keep you slaving to provide them with more.

Why did Trump win? College educated or not, hes a brawling street kid, like most of the working poor in America, and those middle Americans are tired of being told to shut up and take it. Will he deliver?Only time will tell.        

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M:

Your take of Thomas post (the one which starts with "To each his own assertions and opinions") is interesting and makes sense.

But, as is my habit, I plan to deconstruct it, sentence by sentence, word by word, and show in great detail where I think he is wrong, and obviously, where he is right. Thomas covers a lot of important stuff there. We need more minds like that, and active ones too, on Tea Party sites.

M, fair enough.  

We have a difference of opinion driven by perspective. Those you mentioned certainly achieved but excepting Kant, born before capitalism, their achievements were narrow and as such, limited, rather than broad.

Bernard of Chartres's observed during the High Middle Ages that 'we stand on the shoulders of the giants of the past', a reality that we moderns are oblivious to.

And that reality is my argument against modernism and capitalism; it's ignorant and conceited mantra that our time is the greatest because of all our stuff.

Consider a question. Since organized culture/society, more than 5000 years ago, what daily role did government play in the life of Man??? My assertion is NONE!

The French Enlightenment w/ its deadly secular heresies was the catalyst for intrusive government that has become overweening throughout the world because Man has abdicated his heritage of independence, responsibility and self-reliance.

When we recapture these virtues we will recapture our heritage.

Thomas,

Those Giants may have been standing on the shoulders of other giants from even earlier periods. Archeology has now uncovered a civilization that dates back 12,000 years at Göbekli Tepe in Turkey  that has intricate stone structures that were built 2000 years before Science even considered modern man on the scene. That pushed history back and some of the carved stelas that even show a human riding on what we think of as a stegosaurus but was probably some other beast. This pushes back modern/tribal civilization comparable to the egyptians level during the building of the pyramids back about 4,000 years earlier. It's obvious that a higher level of mathematics needed to be used to create those structures. Som I again reiterate my idea that every generation stands on the shoulders of the previous ones but we do advance and subsequent generations will stand on the shoulders of the giants of our generation. However history shows us that societies usually run the same gamut and our American experiment with self governance and even free markets was one that does not seem to have been tried to this extent ever before..

"In contrast, industrial capitalism as defined by Adam smith, commenced around 1760 AD; some 250 years ago, or 4% of the time."

Were I a hypocritical neocon I would ask what are you smoking.
In 4% of time science has produced exponential growth in knowledge. It is not even close to compare the "fact" fire is hot and melts things to the nature of subatomic structure and the true nature of the universe in every field.
It is freedom of thought that has done this and capitalism allows the greatest measure of this. That is it's lone advantage yet all it needs.

What is really the issue remains do we conduct ourselves by our own accords and conscience in the war of ideas or do we conduct matters by the leave of kings and principalities.
When one gets down to it that is everything and nature rewards accordingly. That is the only law of any import.

So science has" produced exponential growth in knowledge" has it? Forgive me, but such cant is beyond preposterous.

Since antiquity to the present, science has narrowed not broadened its focus. As a result we know more and more about less and less; the triumph of the trivial over the consequential; that has absolutely nothing to do w/the day to day life of Man..  

*Archimedes discovered the Principle of Buoyancy which has impacted navigation for 2500 years.

*Kepler defined the motion and impact of Tides.

*Galileo discovered the force of Gravity and invented the Telescope.

*Newton articulated the Laws of Motion.

There are multiple hundreds more who have had a real and lasting impact of the life of Man since antiquity.

In contrast, modern science, imbedded in some university lab are obsessed w/obscurantist theorizing; instead producing the likes of their Climate Change Obsession.

Yeah yeah and the wheel was great work, absolute genius.
Everything you mention was worked out over thousands of years and could fit on one shelf of my library. The entire contents of the library of Alexandria can fit on one giga-stick, just the science behind the giga-stick would overfill that library.

Now compare the ox cart, which was a revolution in and of itself to the 18 wheeler. That is exponential growth due directly to explosive growth in resources of all types due entirely to freeing of minds and markets.

BTW all those guys, genius that they were, were wrong simply because they were describing effects without understanding the reason for the effect's existence.

Newton only developed the working math of the gravitational effect, he was no closer to understanding what was behind it, the warping of space-time, than the Egyptians 3000 years earlier. Of course I am sure that is wrong and will be replaced at some point but it will likely be found in 30 years not 3000.

Science has not narrowed, there is more being investigated than the ancients could even comprehend. No reflection on them just fact.
Now an individual scientist of necessity must be more specialized just due to the reality we do not live long enough to encompass this explosion of knowledge without it. Is that detrimental? Perhaps, only perhaps, but it is a logical consequence of success not failure.

By far our largest problem is the restricting of thought and cronyism that is political in nature and wholly artificial, more a throwback to previous times than our own.

I agree with Marrand Thomas, it would take a full book to completely discuss, but let me ask this,you bring up mankind's greatest achievements as having occurred before capitalism. My question is if those times were so much greater then why the monumental amounts of human suffering that occurred during those times?

W/respect Fredrick, I completely reject your timeline regarding human suffering.

instead asserting that the death and destruction visited upon Mankind since the dawn of Modernism has been far greater. The catastrophic impact of the Great War of 1914 alone still reverberates to this day.

Accepting your observation, why have Man's greatest achievements occurred before modern industrial capitalism???

Consider this:

Down through the ages, achievement, creativity, intelligence and wisdom have always had a spiritual (not a religious) impulse to a greater or lesser degree, at their core.

Yet the very essence of industrial capitalism is materialism. 

Does this reality not say volumes about the why of the condition of our culture/society; its norms, its standards and its values?????

Sorry Thomas but I disagree, separating war from the equation, the quality of life for a human being in those times was despicable, slavery was rampant in all parts of the world, death from starvation and simple diseases was commonplace, persecution of differing thought processes was the favored past time of the ruling classes. Knowledge and certainly spirituality do not denote intelligence, look for example at the political left; they claim knowledge, intelligence and spirituality; the reality of that situation is their dependence on individuals who actually know how to accomplish something. Hillary Clinton made a comment during the election about "Deplorable's", the "dirty working folks", I find this very telling because it really describes the differences in our society, because if you remove the deplorable's from the equation their world stops. It is us, the dirty working folks that build their houses, office buildings, cars, phones, furniture; grow their food, without us their world doesn't exist. True intelligence comes from molding the knowledge with ability and being able to see past that combination to something else. The issue of materialism has been created by those in power to keep the masses, the deplorable's, fat and happy so to speak, so as to keep them bound to the economics based slavery that has been crafted by the elites, those very same people who are so dependent, the loss of values can be directly tied to this, ask any working class parent with 2 jobs just to have enough after paying taxes to buy food and pay bills, how much time they have to focus on values with their children and family, the elites economics bases slavery has created this, not capitalism.

" We are insignificant and trivial dwarves who see as far as we do, only because we stand on the massive shoulders of the giants of antiquity whose intellect and wisdom allows us to see as far as we do."

WRITE IT DOWN, THEN MEMORIZE and INTERNALIZE IT!!!

Then the long march for the recapture of our heritage will commence!

Thomas,

We all build on the past, but we live and react in the present to current stimuli. George Santayana  quoted in 1905;  “Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it”. Winston Churchill modified it in 1948 to; Winston Churchill changed the quote slightly when he said (paraphrased), ‘Those who fail to learn from history are condemned to repeat it.’ We keep repeating the same mistakes even though we are standing on the shoulders of giants as you say. Even those Giants were standing on the shoulders of the Giants who came before them and just as they did, we do, and future generations will, stand on the shoulders of today's giants. That's how it usually works.

You forget some things though. Take dictatorships. They come in many forms. The Catholic Church kept and still keeps much information away from the people because they fear it would destroy the Faith. Muslims who are generally attributed to keeping the flame alive during the 'Dark Ages', were in actuality responsible for burning many libraries and destroying about 90% of mankinds accumulated Knowledge. For a closer look, look to the 1870's and 1890's in America and with enough research you will find how American History books were changed for political purposes.Research a Russian encyclopedia from the 1950s and you will also see how skewed it is. Do you really believe that your giants of antiquity did not have the same hinderances as we do today? That would be going against Human nature.

One more or less modern case in point, Atomic energy. Laverde and Thorndyke first postulated the possibility and rudimentary construction of an Atomic Bomb along with other uses of atomic power. They did not have the math to see there were upper limits that would balance the forces and end the reaction at a specific level. They thought that if an atomic vortice was created it would light the world on fire like a match head. It took Einstein to develop the math to see it would not. Einstein did not stand on any ones shoulders, he created that math. Paul Dirac also created a new type of math from scratch too. I guess my point is there is a balance between what we learn from the past,what we discover ourselves, and what we reject from the past when we find new information that turns the "Settled History" on it's collective head.

There are too many variables to just think the giants from the past had a greater conceptualization of reality than we have. We learn from the advancements and from the failures of the past, but we don't learn well enough to avoid the consequences of human nature throwing a monkey wrench into the works and destroying it. If we were to work on the sciences of the mind we might be further ahead of the mess. We need to return to the Classical education of the Founders intermixed with the discoveries made up to the present, and instill it into our childrens generations.

We know that the Founders were well educated men. Either through schooling or being self taught. The point is our modern schools have become nothing more than Propaganda/Indoctrination centers developing the minds of our kids into the perfect 'Proletariat' who serve the elites agendas. In short they are being taught to regurgitate specific 'Approved' information, and are not being taught to think or research for themselves. That will end our civilization as we know it, and we will be in another generations long decline into intellectual darkness. 

Consider this; The current Progressive Agenda or agendas are like all the past agendas of the Elite/Monarchy/Oligarchy/ agendas based on Greed and Control through laws designed to keep them in power. It's no different today, and it is rapidly devolving into the old ways cited above. I never thought 8 years could set us so far back and side ways. We can temporarily defeat the foes of our Republic by uniting in common purpose to defeat the forces of the opposition. However I doubt if we will since most of us are wrapped up in our personal desires and do not see the big picture. The opposition knows this and capitalizes on it to keep us as divided as possible and fighting each other instead of fighting them and their agendas. All I can say is when we lose it, we will deserve everything they throw at us because we pursued personal and hedonistic goals rather than advancement goals which would enhance our Freedoms and Liberties correctly.

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