School Shootings and Cultural Rot

[Oren Long]

One of the Prime Rules of Management is, "Separate Problems from Symptoms.   Treat the Problem and the Symptom will go away".

School shootings are not the real problem.   The real problem is CULTURAL ROT that creates a cultural environment conducive to school shootings.   Trump, guns, and the NRA are just distractions, convenient targets designed to distract us from the underlying problem of CULTURAL ROT!  

Joseph Stalin once said something to the effect that America had three things Communism could never defeat, "Patriotism, Religion, and Cultural Values".   he said that if Communism could undermine those, America would fall of her own weight.   We are well on our way to making that happen.

In the "Olden Days" it was not uncommon to see rifles and shotguns in gun racks in students' pickup trucks in school parking lots.   Sometimes, the trucks were unlocked with the keys in the ignition.   it was not considered a problem.   Schools were not "Gun-Free Zones" AND there were no school shootings.   Discipline in school was strictly and rigidly enforced.   To be sure, there were the occasional fist fights, but no one ran to their truck to get a gun.

Everything has changed.   No one wants to address the problem, instead obsessing over the symptom of school shootings and the faux "problems:" of guns and the NRA.   Again, the problem is the pervasive cultural rot eating away at society, sort of like a flesh-eating bacteria.   Pornography, drugs, permissiveness, violent video games, violence in movies and on T.V., crudity, lawlessness, familial breakdown, godlessness, gangs, the erosion of social morays and standards, etc. are everywhere -- and getting worse.   

Politicians on both sides are focused on treating the symptoms, and perhaps that is the best we/they can do at this time.   I do not pretend to know the answer, but I do know that getting rid of guns and the NRA are not it.   I don't know that there is an answer.   At this point, perhaps all we CAN do is treat the symptoms, but we have to start somewhere.   AND, we must not allow ourselves to be distracted from coming up with real, practical solutions.

The Left's "solution" is to take guns away from everyone (though they will deny it) while simultaneously continuing to undermine American culture and values and thus exacerbating the problem that leads to the symptom of school shootings in the first place.

Trump wants to arm those teachers and staff who want to be trained and armed, but also wants to raise the age for buying a gun to 21.

Others advocate for putting armed cops in schools, but that hasn't worked as both Florida and Columbine showed.   In both cases the cops who were there did nothing until the killing was over.   Only armed teachers and staff could have stopped it.   If teachers and staff at Columbine, Sandy Hook, and Florida had been able to kill the attackers at the start, I dare say that we would not see more school shootings.   Killers love to kill, but don't want to be killed.   They seek fame and/or revenge, not death.

Raising the age to buy (or own, possess, or use) a gun to 21 is a BAD idea for three reasons:

First, we allow 18-20 year olds to join the military and be issued a fully automatic, military-grade weapon, but, when on leave, they would not be able to buy, own, possess, or use a gun.   Really?!

Second, such a law would undermine yet another American tradition, parents getting "junior" his first gun at an early age and teaching him safety and responsibility while the parents still had total control over the learning.

Third, under such a law, buying a gun for junior would be a "straw purchase" (buying a gun for a person who is not legally empowered to buy, own, possess, or use a gun), a serious felony.

Again, I don't have the answer, but I do know that getting rid of guns, the NRA, or restricting access by law-abiding citizens isn't it.

Oren

[M]

Thomas,

Unfortunately Congress Progressive gun grabbers are trying to outlaw all semi-automatic rifles, and the way it's written possibly handguns too with the exception of the police agencies (all of them federal and local)  and the military.That bodes evil for all Americans since All of History which you are so adept at citing, the ruling class has forbade weapons to their civilian populations to keep them in iron fisted control. Look how many innocent civilians have been murdered by their "Fearless Leaders" in the last 120 years. I am sure you know who said "Power Corrupts, Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely".Even though it's anathema to Americans, we are seeing a rapidly advancing situation with American leaders. I cite the Progressive/Socialist Liberal Democrats, and much of the Republican Party and possibly all of it, Sanders Socialist Party, and the list goes on and on.

Not much of our original Republic is left, only the semblance of it that is still useful to control the masses.That is the great hidden strength of our detractors; the fact that most Americans still believe America is the strong Constitutional Republic W/Democratic Principles we were taught in school it was. They still naively believe the basic morals and integrity remains, when what I see of our politicians denies that being true.Think back to the 40's and 50's when things were presented to the public as black and white choices between American Capitalism and Russian Communism.America was presented to us as the shining example of freedom for all the world to see. WE still had guns,(except machine guns) much of the non-lethal devices were forbidden to the public like the cattle prods that became stun guns.Tear gas and it's derivatives. We were allowed to keep our semi automatic rifles like the M1 Garand which was specifically designed for combat. We were even allowed to own the Sterling SMG until the govt. found out that putting the safety on half turned it into a full auto machine gun and had to issue grandfathered permits to those who legally bought them.

By the way, Machine Guns were and are not illegal to own provided you pay the tax for them, you pass an extensive background check, and they were made before the cut off date in the 1980's. Statistics show that there was never a legally owned SMG used in a crime or a mass shooting in the USA after 1930's gangster era. My point is, having all that we did not have mass shootings, nor did we have the implanted fear of fire arms in the hands of a law abiding public. If you check history carefully, you will find that the Democratic Party has always been the one that put restrictions and workarounds on our Constitutional Freedoms for their crony's benefits, from the original push for slavery being legal, through the Jim Crow laws, the Dixiecrat Era, Creation of the KKK, Sponsoring Planned Parenthood for genocidal purposes under Margaret Langer,and now the welfare slavery and illegal immigrants DACA defense, to bolster their voting base.

I beg to differ with you on certain rifles that had counterparts of the military ones, like the AR-18 and it's civilian version the AR-180. (https://gundigest.com/more/classic-guns/ar-18-armalites-black-rifle) Here's a quote from that article "The AR-18 had a civilian counterpart called the AR-180. This was designed to be a sporting rifle or a police long arm, and was semi-automatic only. It sold marginally well. "

Much of the Deliberate Confusion Perpetrated on the public by the Gun Grabber Crowd, comes from the Military Only; Armalite AR 15 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArmaLite_AR-15) Quote from article; The ArmaLite AR-15 was a select-fire, air-cooled, gas-operated, magazine-fed assault riflemanufactured in the United States between 1959 and 1964. Designed by American gun manufacturer ArmaLite in 1956, it was based on its AR-10 rifle. The ArmaLite AR-15 was designed to be a lightweight assault rifle and to fire a new high-velocity, lightweight, small-caliber cartridge to allow the infantrymen to carry more ammunition.^[4] The rifle was not available for civilian use. It followed the AR10 created specifically as an assault weapon. 

The Civilian AR-15  we have today is the Colt AR-15 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt_AR-15) Quote from article; "The Colt AR-15 is a lightweight, 5.56×45mm, magazine-fed, gas-operated semi-automatic rifle. It was designed to be manufactured with the extensive use of aluminum alloys and synthetic materials. It is a semi-automatic version of the United States military M16 rifle. Colt's Manufacturing Company currently uses the AR-15 trademark for its line of semi-automatic AR-15 rifles that are marketed to civilian and law-enforcement customers. Notice it was always intended to be a civilian weapon. Today you can get look alike AR's chambered in the .22, .223, .308, .300, but not so much in the military 5.56x45 mm (NATO) round.

The M14 rifle, officially the United States Rifle, 7.62 mm, M14,^[5] is an American automatic rifle that fires 7.62×51mm NATO (commercial .308 Winchester) ammunition. It gradually replaced the M1 Garand rifle in U.S. Army service by 1961 and in U.S. Marine Corps service by 1965. It was the Last Battle rifle issued to US Troops. It to has a version specifically created for Civilian only use.( https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2011/2/22/springfield-m1a...)  Quote from article; In 1962, the government’s Springfield Armory—the U.S. arsenal in Massachusetts that is linked by name only to the current Illinois-based company—was instructed to create some modified M14-based rifles for competition use. The guns were to have a number of modifications which basically worked toward the same end: The new rifles would have no full-automatic fire selector nor any means for accommodating one. Where practical, semi-auto M1 parts were installed to replace selective fire components. (See “The First M1As,” American Rifleman, August, 1990). Despite complying with BATF guidelines for a rifle readily suitable for sale to civilians, the gun ran afoul of DCM’s Maj. Gen. Nelson M. Lynde. Gen. Lynde felt the new rifles were not DCM-compliant as they could not be converted back to military issue configuration in the event of a national emergency.

This statement from the DCM shows that it was perfectly acceptable to own civilian versions dedicated to civilian marksmanship programs and personal use that in the event of a national emergency could be refitted as full military versions, which the Colt .223 AR-15 can not without a gunsmith reworking/remachining it.

I do see Oren's point about the Progressive element manipulating anyone who disagrees with them to argue among themselves about the differences and ignore the Constitution (Remember this fact; Any American could purchase and own any piece of Military equipment they could afford up until the FDR administration created restrictions, even a Machine gun emplacement if they wanted one. Granted most Americans did not want them, but one gunsmith I knew in Pa. had two different ones  a German Maxim, and an American one called the Potato digger, the Colt-Browning M1895 air cooled. That was when the 2nd Amendment was still enforced against the Government as it was intended to be.

[Thomas Vincent Coffey]

M, Appreciate your efforts to shed light rather than spread heat.

Briefly, I read and reflect on all opinions before replying,

Assault Rifles were originally commissioned by our DoD for a specific

military purpose having absolutely nothing to do w/any civilian use.

In my judgement, returning to that original purpose is overdue for the good of all.

Nothing more to say on this.

[M]

So were military pistols originally designed like the venerable 1911 even the .38 specials at one time were designed for military. Pistols going back to the black powder models like the Patterson, the Dragoon, and the Walker. all of those were designed as cavalry saddle pistols but were used more by civilians than by Military. I have owned a colt AR-15, the AR-180, and an AR-7 (.22) The only design factor comparable on those with the exception of the AR-7 which was designed specifically as a military pilot survival Rifle have only the cosmetic looks in common with Military designed rifles. What about the M-1 Garand? That was a battle rifle but lent itself to civilian use quite readily.The Mini-14 and Mini-30 Ranch Rifles are varminters that were designed to look like the M-14 but could never be issued to US Troops.

Bottom line is;FOR THE GOOD OF ALL:  We must find all the root causes that turn people into serial shooters and eliminate them if we want this to stop. Blaming Military look alike guns for student deaths, is tantamount to blaming cars for drunk driver caused deaths. As I said before, the 2nd Amendment is the SYMBOL of our freedoms, and is in fact the TEETH of the Constitution. If the Congress wants to restrict gun ownership and outlaw specific guns, let them call for an amendment and see just how far it will go with the American people. We need to be reconciling our differences, not be trying to WIN against the other side, that makes for winners and losers, and losers get pissed. 

[Thomas Vincent Coffey]

Hmm........ so we must find the root causes that turn people into serial shooters..........

Er.............the root cause has been known since Cain killed his brother Abel in the Garden of Eden!

Man, born in original sin, is not a perfectible creature during his life in this world; a cardinal precept of conservatism.

As for the 2nd Amendment it is one of 10 in the Bill of Rights and 27 in total; all part of our much larger Constitution and hardly the teeth of anything.

We shall see how this plays out.

[M]

So we shall see how it plays out Thomas. I see the root causes as lack of two parent households, lack of discipline at early age, lack of society agreeing on basic rules (like the ten commandments) society lives by. dissolution of morals, integrity,honor, honesty, self respect, respect for others, lack of training,lack of what was once called common sense, cronyism, dual standards, lack of brotherly love,no standards of proper comportment, things like that.

[Thomas Vincent Coffey]

M, fair enough and w/respect.

What you say is beyond dispute and a reflection of who and what we have become as a  culture/society.

Repeating, were our Founders to re-appear but for a moment; they would not recognize the nation-state they created.

Stay well.

[kevin kiernan]

If the civilian population is to have a well regulated militia, then they need to work with weapons that can at the very least, give them a fighting chance. A-R 15 demands more respect from any opposition. During the Bundy ranch stand off. The cowboys had matching fire power. If the had pea shooter, The BLM would have rolled the Cowboys up. To be effective I would think the citizen militias need to have as much fire power that they can keep. The problem is that not enough citizens, understand the reality of what it takes to maintain a government of for ,and by the people. Teaching the truth of things is very important and is the best peaceful way of keeping our Republic. When the left gets lazy and just throws out sayings like the right does not care about people dying. That is the time to give good speech or write a good response. Always speaking the truth with facts. Thomas you probably know more than all here that history is the best teacher.....WE MUST WIN THIS INFORMATION CIVIL WAR WE ARE IN....WE HAVE THE LEADER WE NEED TO DO IT...OUR ONCE IN A LIFETME CHANCE IS NOW......

[Thomas Vincent Coffey]

Appreciate the compliment.

History, like a box-score, tells us what happened.

Yet before we apply it, we must grasp what it's telling us.

Repeating an analogy; compare our first 5 Presidents to our last 5.

What does it say about the values past citizens accepted in candidates

compared to what current citizens accept?

Our current gatekeeper of history is the media because we are too lazy to inquire and reflect on our own,. So is it any surprise that ignorance is the norm?

The Greeks and Romans were comfortable w/oligarchs, for a plain and simple reason.They set very high standards for those who would rule them and those who failed did not last.

But we, who are easily persuaded w/very low standards insist;" We are the Greatest"

[M]

Thomas,

I found something that you might like to research, it's from the James Madison Research Library and Information Center;

Link; http://www.madisonbrigade.com/library_bor.htm

It contains the Federalist and the Anti Federalist views on the meaning of the Constitution and how it was meant to be interpreted in the meanings that prevailed in both Britain and the Colonies including the years before in British laws going back to the Magna Carta. Interesting read and a long one.

M

[M]

The fallacy of CNN anchor about the AR-15 just for laughs