People & Groups Funding Student Protests & Massive War On Our Rights

[M]

I found this posted on Twitter by Navstadt;

Guess Who's Funding the 'Student' Gun Control Movement? https://constitution.com/guess-whos-funding-anti-gun-student-movement/ … via @ConstitutionNat Read all of the article and find out the despicable truth. So, who’s bankrolling the lefty kids from Parkland, Florida? It’s a veritable “Who’s Who” of leftwing money from Michael Bloomberg, to George Soros, to the baby killers at Planned Parenthood. Everytown, Giffords, Move On, Planned Parenthood, and the Women’s March LA =Logistics Everytown and Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense in America,Everytown for Gun Safety — bankrolled mostly by Michael Bloomberg.MoveOn-George Soros,A-list celebrities including Oprah, George and Amal Clooney, Steven Spielberg, and Jeffrey Katzenberg,Planned Parenthood,are organizing.

And this is just the tip of the iceberg, folks.The activist left has been bankrolling these children since the day after the shooting, when Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D-FL) arrived on the scene in Parkland and realized there were easy political points to win. THIS IS AN OUTRAGE.

 Michael Bloomberg’s groups and the Women’s March working on the upcoming March For Our Lives, MoveOn.org doing social media promotion & (potentially) march logistics, and training for student activists provided by FEDERALLY FUNDED Planned Parenthood=OUR TAX DOLLARS.

Here's the PDF of the collaborative school agreement PDF https://www.browardprevention.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Fully-...

https://www.realclearinvestigations.com/articles/2018/02/28/obama_a...

Is the information on the School and runcie where Cruz was not listed per agreement.Despite committing a string of arrestable offenses on campus before the Florida school shooting, Nikolas Cruz was able to escape the attention of law enforcement, pass a background check and purchase the weapon he used to slaughter three staff members and 14 fellow students because of Obama administration efforts to make school discipline more lenient. “He had a clean record, so alarm bells didn’t go off when they looked him up in the system,” veteran FBI agent Michael Biasello told RCI. “He probably wouldn’t have been able to buy the murder weapon if the school had referred him to law enforcement."  The new policy resulted from an Obama administration effort begun in 2011 to keep students in school and improve racial outcomes (timeline here  https://www.realclearinvestigations.com/articles/2018/03/02/broward...), and came against a backdrop of other efforts to rein in perceived excesses in "zero tolerance" discipline policies, including in ( Florida. http://www.djj.state.fl.us/news/press-releases/press-release-detail...)  Broward school Superintendent Robert W. Runcie – a Chicagoan and Harvard graduate with ( close ties  http://www.scholastic.com/browse/article.jsp?id=3758419) to President Obama and his Education Department – signed an agreement with the county sheriff and other local jurisdictions to trade cops for counseling. Students charged with various misdemeanors, including assault, would now be disciplined through ( participation  https://www.browardprevention.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/SY-201... in “healing circles,” obstacle courses and other “self-esteem building” exercises.

If you read through the article & follow the successive links, you'll see a correlation between the serial shooter & the various programs and ideologies that let him slip through the cracks in the system that failed to prevent him from getting the gun."ROOT CAUSES"

More information about the massive movement by the millionaire crowd and the use of our tax dollars to fund this latest attack on the Constitution. I believe they truly don't give a damn about the students and are just using them to promote their base agendas.

AFT, as well as the growing contingent of organizations backing the student-led march, are working to cultivate and build upon the movement after the rally.After that, she says the goal is to carry that momentum until November — with some of the students already using the hashtag #VoteThemOut.

Follow through on the article and the successive articles by following all the links they contain, and you will see just how massive a movement by the organizations and their financial/political backers is being waged against our rights. I DARE YOU TO LEARN ABOUT IT!!!

It's Imperative the articles at; https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2018/03/paper-ben-rhodes-establishing-shadow-national-security-council/ … and https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2018/03/ben_rhodes_launches_a_shadow_national_security_council.html#ixzz58Xyvk2JG … be read thoroughly, and the internal links be followed to see the depth of the Anti-American "Deep State" that Obama originated on orders from his Puppet Master ( IMHO ) in the Federal Government to destroy us and eliminate Constitutional Protections guarding our Liberty.

Some combining and Grammar corrected by me W/Apologies

M

[T Amnesia]

Apparently, the Progressives in our society DO GIVE A DAMN since they are the ONLY ones mobilizing for common sense changes.  And what have the regressive republicans done?  Nothing.   What do they plan to do?  Nothing.  Their only response has been, "This is not the time."  Evidently, the regressives are fine with seven kids being shot to death in this country every day of the year.  Which is one more reason the republican party is dying a little more with each successive generation.

Remember, in 2020, those "kids", that whole generation of kids, will be voting in the presidential election and this is a defining moment in their lives.  When they choose what side of the issues are they going to take, they will remember that the republicans did NOTHING.  They did nothing about gun violence, nothing about climate change, nothing about poverty, nothing about income equality, nothing about immigration, nothing about anything.  Again and again, they failed to act.

They will also remember that all of those progressive organizations you listed were there for them, trying to facilitate positive change, and they were not deep into the pockets of the NRA.

One more note:  Article 5 of the Constitution details what is necessary to amend the Constitution and it has been amended 27 times.  There is nothing Holy about the Constitution or the rights it provides for.  Your rights can, and have been changed before.  It can be changed again.  The courts, in particular, the Supreme Court can (and has) changed how certain rights have been interpreted.  The Constitution is an ever-changing and fluid document, as it was meant to be.

[M]

Hi T.

It was released yesterday about the Students who are protesting for total gun control are being used to sign letters asking for donations to the Democratic Party. I find that appalling because it shows the Democrats are manipulating these grieving kids for profit for their party and it's agendas.

Again there is no study on what is the root causes for these mental cases turning into mass murderers, and until it is known why, anything that is done is a waste of time and resources. It could even make matters worse if the wrong things are done. Stop blaming the guns and find out what is causing this mess.

What is causing the abject anger and depressive states all the school shooters have had in common? Bear in mind that only one of them had a legally purchased rifle, all the rest were stolen firearms.. Don't forget the fact that there are ten thousand kids killed every six months by planned parenthood abortions. Those Progressives that you laud so highly bemoan the kids that were shot to gain an emotional hold on people but they think it is alright to kill unborn babies with no emotional reaction. Those regressive Republicans you spoke of are trying to stop that massive murder. Don't say it's not,because those aborted babies were viable until they would have been born, and been verified reports of doctors killing the aborted babies who did not die from the abortion. Not to mention the selling of the body parts of those babies.

Take a look at partial birth abortions and a i guess it's a training video of one being done if you dare at;

. https://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images;_ylt=AwrBT4V9Ip5aylQA...

[T Amnesia]

Good morning, M.

Could it be that the Students and the Democrats have the same agenda in mind?  Do you think that they both want something done?  In that case, the Students would be using the Democrats to facilitate the change that they want, not the other way around.  Why?  Because they know they cant count on the republicans to help.  The republicans can't even pretend to be interested.

And we have to wait until someone figures out the mental illness part of the equation before anything can be done?  That's ridiculous.  Like Trump when he says he wants to completely ban Muslim immigration until we can figure out what is going on, maybe we should just stop selling guns until we figure out what we need to do to keep our schools, churches, and families safe, because selling more guns isn't working.  I know that's not going to happen and it's I'm just playing the devil's advocate.  But what about THIS ?   Every time someone tries to do even the smallest thing that might help in some tiny way, all we get from the regressives is, "No, that's not the answer.  Now is not the time.  We need to find the right approach." Yet they never do or try anything for one simple reason, and it ain't the Constitution. 

It's because the NRA has castrated every one of them.  You know it.  I know it. Everyone knows it. 

85% of Americans want stricter gun controls, but the republicans are happy to look the other way, like it's not real if they don't see it. 

[M]

T.

please explain why, if the Democrats only want to stop the AR style Rifles, they have come up wit H.R. 5087 that actually outlaws every Semi Automatic Rifle and Semi automatic pistol in the USA along with every add on to rifles and pistols? (https://www.congress.gov/115/bills/hr5087/BILLS-115hr5087ih.pdf) Please read it and tell me the end game is not Total Disarmament of the Law Abiding Public. Guess they forgot that Criminals and Mental Cases DON'T OBEY THE LAW anyway. By the way I believe that the Progressives are manipulating the Students naivete with highly emotional arguments that don't hold up. Stop Blaming Guns. When there is a Terrorist Bombing we don't blame the Bomb, we blame the Terrorist. When there is a Traffic Death attributed to a Drunk Driver we don't blame the Booze or the Car, we blame the Drunk Driver. When a House or Apartment fire kills many occupants, we don't blame the Buildings, we blame the Cause of the Fire. Why, then when there is a Shooting, we blame the Gun? That is Mental Cowardice. In those items cited, we don't blame the 'Tool', we blame the CAUSE.

M

[T Amnesia]

You already know why.  If you want to sell your home for $250k you list it for $300k and expect to negotiate.  Besides, it would be a better world if automatic weapons were outlawed for use by the general public, would it not?  Then maybe, just MAYBE the police would have better equipment than the average 18 year old kid. 

When there is a traffic death, we blame the drunk driver and the bartender, party store, bar owner, and maybe the auto manufacturer if the air-bag fails.  When a house or apartment fire kills its occupants we blame the cause of the fire, and when applicable, the construction practices, the municipal inspectors, and product manufacturers that caused the fire to accelerate.  When there is a shooting, we blame the  shooter and we also blame the laws that enable morons, mental cases, and people with anger issues to obtain high powered semi-automatic firearms and we blame gun manufacturers for putting assault-style arms in the public marketplace.

People are not blaming the objects.  People are looking at the unacceptable circumstances and asking, "What can be done to avoid this from happening again tomorrow?" 

There is an accessory that can be added to automobiles that will not allow an intoxicated driver to start the car.  If laws regulating drunk driving don't work to our satisfaction, we can make that standard equipment.

There are fire retardant building materials, fabrics, floor coverings, etc. that can stop fires from beginning and spreading.  If losses from home fires get too great to tolerate, we can make them requirements of our building codes.

If too many events are interrupted by large politically charged explosions, we can pass laws that prohibit the sale of explosives to anyone that walks into the Blow-It-Up store.

In the end, if nothing is done to limit or eliminate the problems, then we blame politicians for failing to regulate the "deadly activity" in an effort to keep the public safe.  Again, we can't blame inanimate objects, but we can blame the people that make deadly situations possible, which, in the instant case are republicans, the NRA, gun manufacturers, firearms dealers, gun shows, unscrupulous gun buyers, gun owners, and index fingers.

[M]

T. 

Lets take this step by step;

You already know why.  If you want to sell your home for $250k you list it for $300k and expect to negotiate.  Besides, it would be a better world if automatic weapons were outlawed for use by the general public, would it not?  Then maybe, just MAYBE the police would have better equipment than the average 18 year old kid. 

(Automatic weapons have been restricted from the public since the 1930's you can still get one if you go through a thorough BACKGROUND CHECK wait 6-7 months for approval, then pay out $300.00 a year for the tax stamp then you can purchase one legally if you have the average price of $30,000.00 for one of them. you say better weapons right? Guess what, the police have been militarized and equipped like the national guard.)

When there is a traffic death, we blame the drunk driver and the bartender, party store, bar owner, and maybe the auto manufacturer if the air-bag fails.  When a house or apartment fire kills its occupants we blame the cause of the fire, and when applicable, the construction practices, the municipal inspectors, and product manufacturers that caused the fire to accelerate.  When there is a shooting, we blame the  shooter and we also blame the laws that enable morons, mental cases, and people with anger issues to obtain high powered semi-automatic firearms and we blame gun manufacturers for putting assault-style arms in the public marketplace.

( Do you know what an assault weapon or a battle rifle is? The last Battle Rifle issued to our military was the WWII style upgraded M-14. The next Issued Rifle was the Fully Automatic M-16/ 3 shot select fire M-16. The AR-15 was specifically designed for the civilian use, and is not able to be used by the military. You are doing what the Gun Grabbers do to elicit an emotional response that can be used against anyone who disagrees with their agendas and are calling the AR-15 an assault Rifle because it cosmetically resembles one, but can't operate as one.)

People are not blaming the objects.  People are looking at the unacceptable circumstances and asking, "What can be done to avoid this from happening again tomorrow?" 

(There are ways that it can be prevented but that does not include the banning of what is now 205 different firearms, Rifles and Pistols when it is the proven unworkable GFZ's that are the culprit. Banning guns is nothing more than a Feel Good Act that accomplishes nothing towards stopping the shooters, because Criminals and Mental cases do not obey the law in the first place.  Besides  that, the liberal democrat gun grabbers ARE blaming guns for peoples bad, violent, or murderous crazy behavior.)

There is an accessory that can be added to automobiles that will not allow an intoxicated driver to start the car.  If laws regulating drunk driving don't work to our satisfaction, we can make that standard equipment.

( Those devices have been around for 40 years that I know of, and judges have mandated they be installed in repeat offenders cars until the Liberal SCOTUS ruled that was cruel and unusual punishment under the Constitutions eighth amendment and stopped it)

There are fire retardant building materials, fabrics, floor coverings, etc. that can stop fires from beginning and spreading.  If losses from home fires get too great to tolerate, we can make them requirements of our building codes.

( Those things are already part of fire codes check out the NFPA codes that cover everything done today to prevent fires. I was a Fire Marshal as well as a Patrolman and had to know them or where to look them up. Besides that does not address the statement of blaming the house for the deaths

If too many events are interrupted by large politically charged explosions, we can pass laws that prohibit the sale of explosives to anyone that walks into the Blow-It-Up store.

( If you are talking about Dynamite, C-4, Prilled Ammonium Nitrate, and other commercial explosives there are background checks and permits already necessary to purchase. In some cases you have to be licensed. )

In the end, if nothing is done to limit or eliminate the problems, then we blame politicians for failing to regulate the "deadly activity" in an effort to keep the public safe.  Again, we can't blame inanimate objects, but we can blame the people that make deadly situations possible, which, in the instant case are republicans, the NRA, gun manufacturers, firearms dealers, gun shows, unscrupulous gun buyers, gun owners, and index fingers.

( Again I disagree with you, it's the perpetrators who are the proper ones to blame. Along with those losers we must blame the liberal lawmakers who destroyed the concept of personal responsibility,corrupted morals,ridiculed society standards that have stood the test of time. We had more access to guns when I was young, even in schools, We didn't have to lock our doors at night,women were not as subject to abuse like today because men would immediately come to their aid and beat the shit out of their attackers. Parents spanked their kids when they misbehaved notice I said spanked, not beat up. We didn't turn to the government to rectify our problems we learned self reliance, self respect, and integrity. All that is severely lacking today.)

One other thing; The bill is expected to be tacked on to a must pass bill as an amendment to skirt public disapproval and probable rejection by the people. They want to sneak it through as it is.

[T Amnesia]

Automatic weapons have been restricted from the public since the 1930's you can still get one....

My mistake.  I meant to write "semi-automatic".   That said, I didn't realize fully automatic weapons were available to the public at any cost.  I guess its just another benefit of being rich.

You are doing what the Gun Grabbers do to elicit an emotional response that can be used against anyone who disagrees with their agendas and are calling the AR-15 an assault Rifle because it cosmetically resembles one, but can't operate as one.

I did write "assault-style" which just makes a high powered, large magazine rifle more appealing to many people because it looks cool.  Could it not be outfitted with a bump-stock and thereby almost operate automatically?  I also don't know any gun grabbers nor do I agree with their agenda, whatever it may be.

There are ways that it can be prevented but that does not include the banning of what is now 205 different firearms, Rifles and Pistols when it is the proven unworkable GFZ's that are the culprit. Banning guns is nothing more than a Feel Good Act....

Then why don't the republicans in charge act to legislate those "ways"?  If nothing that makes a meaningful difference is put on the table, then all that's left is a feel good act, which is what we will have to be content with for the time being.

Those devices have been around for 40 years that I know of, and judges have mandated they be installed in repeat offenders cars until the Liberal SCOTUS ruled that was cruel and unusual punishment under the Constitutions eighth amendment and stopped it.

I've not heard of that case and would like to read it.  Can you provide us with the title and year please?  As far as I know, they are still being installed today.

Those things are already part of fire codes check out the NFPA codes that cover everything done today to prevent fires. I was a Fire Marshal as well as a Patrolman and had to know them or where to look them up. Besides that does not address the statement of blaming the house for the deaths.

I already acquiesced and said blaming inanimate objects was fruitless.

If you are talking about Dynamite, C-4, Prilled Ammonium Nitrate, and other commercial explosives there are background checks and permits already necessary to purchase. In some cases you have to be licensed.

And how is that whole background check, permits, and license process working out for us?  I'd say not so good when it comes to firearms.

[W]e must blame the liberal lawmakers who destroyed the concept of personal responsibility,corrupted morals,ridiculed society standards that have stood the test of time... [and] women were not as subject to abuse like today.

Of course that's your opinion, but I would assert that is has been the regressives that have corrupted our society, culminating with the our current president who has been accused of assaulting DOZENS of women, had numerous extramarital affairs, and has done so with impunity.

The bill is expected to be tacked on to a must pass bill as an amendment to skirt public disapproval and probable rejection by the people.

WRONG.  The People are actually in favor of stricter gun controls, firearm restrictions, and more rigorous background checks, waiting periods and mental health evaluations of all who would purchase a firearm from ANY seller.  Poll after poll puts the acceptance level of stricter gun controls between 70% and 90%, depending on how the questions are phrased.  Even responsible gun owners want stricter control and more effective background checks.

[M]

Very good rebuttals, I feel we are moving closer to a real solution to the problems.

 

Lets take this a step at a time

My mistake.  I meant to write "semi-automatic".   That said, I didn't realize fully automatic weapons were available to the public at any cost.  I guess its just another benefit of being rich.

 

If you haven't fired guns especially full auto, you don't know just how inaccurate that makes them. basically most people can't hit much with one, even trained soldiers unless they have been the latest ones out with three shot bursts which I would hate any civilian getting their hands on.

I did write "assault-style" which just makes a high powered, large magazine rifle more appealing to many people because it looks cool.  Could it not be outfitted with a bump-stock and thereby almost operate automatically?  I also don't know any gun grabbers nor do I agree with their agenda, whatever it may be.

 

I did look into the bump stocks and they only make them for three rifles, the AR-15 is one of them. There is no actual "Assault Style" rifles, there are only Assault look alikes. As to the idea that large capacity magazines being bad, what's the difference between a 30 round magazines and 3-10 round ones? Reloading time is measured in less than 2 seconds with practice. It's not the capacity of the magazine, it's the capacity for evil of the shooter.

 

Then why don't the republicans in charge act to legislate those "ways"?  If nothing that makes a meaningful difference is put on the table, then all that's left is a feel good act, which is what we will have to be content with for the time being.

 

I'll ask you the same question about the Democrats when they had the super majority that could not be opposed if they wanted to do it. The answer is the general public does not want those changes. Today I read that the background check procedure is still flawed but if the police and FBI had did their jobs they could have stopped it from happening, and the procedures that contributed to the massacre were put in place by Obama with his ideology of not arresting students. Unfortunately that "Feel Good Act" only helps increase the body count. We must start looking to the reality of the situation on both sides to determine what can actually be done to stop it.

 

I've not heard of that case and would like to read it.  Can you provide us with the title and year please?  As far as I know, they are still being installed today.

 

The device I know of is called the intoxalock currently and I don't remember the name of the one that was used before, but basically it consisted of a tube the driver had to breathe into and it would prevent the vehicle from starting if the drivers alcohol level was above a specified amount. I am going back about thirty years in my memory and it might have been a federal circuit court instead of SCOTUS, I'll keep looking.

 

I already acquiesced and said blaming inanimate objects was fruitless.

 

That is exactly my point about guns, they are inanimate objects, it's the people who use them who are at fault.

And how is that whole background check, permits, and license process working out for us?  I'd say not so good when it comes to firearms.

 

So think back to the Boston Marathon and the bomb that hurt so many. it was obtained illegally thus avoiding a background check. Firearms can be gotten illegally, and no amount of checks will ever stop that. We must focus on the root causes that cause people to become killers and work to eliminate those problems if we want the murders to stop.We can't stop everything but we can make realistic decisions on what can be done and implement them. 

 

Of course that's your opinion, but I would assert that is has been the regressives that have corrupted our society, culminating with the our current president who has been accused of assaulting DOZENS of women, had numerous extramarital affairs, and has done so with impunity.

 

The historical facts do not lend credence to your viewpoint. Liberal/Progressive decisions that affected the society standards of morality combined with the ascension of the Anti-Hero fiction the movies depicted,added to the breakdown. It was a combined assault by many factors that have brought us to the mess we are in today.As I said before, there was far greater access to guns by a larger range of age groups fifty years ago and about only 10% of the violence. As gun laws got stricter and the general law abiding public was restricted from access to guns, the criminal and mental case element increased geometrically. When the restrictions on permits was loosened in every case the incidence of violence went down except in GFZ's where it went up.

 

WRONG.  The People are actually in favor of stricter gun controls, firearm restrictions, and more rigorous background checks, waiting periods and mental health evaluations of all who would purchase a firearm from ANY seller.  Poll after poll puts the acceptance level of stricter gun controls between 70% and 90%, depending on how the questions are phrased.  Even responsible gun owners want stricter control and more effective background checks.

 

Explain the opposition to the newest Florida gun bill that has all sides against it, even the Democratic Party. This does not excuse the law makers from trying a stealthy way to sneak something across, but denotes their fears of public rejection of that bit of legislation,

 As to polls those for and against seem to reflect the views the creator of the polls want to see validated. I personally do not believe either sides polls. It's always going to be the squeeky wheel that gets the grease. I'm in favor of going back to the old ways where the NRA and DCM created classes for schools dealing with Firearm Safety and Legal Usage including the morality of using deadly force being restricted to only to stop further aggression and save a life. always stressed Stop never Kill. Even the Military teaches every soldier except snipers, to shoot to wound instead of kill, or at least they used to when I was younger in the Vietnam era.

By the way I am in favor of Realistic laws that might have a positive effect, but do not outlaw or confiscate guns from the public. Enforcement of the laws on the books would go a hell of a long long way to accomplishing that. We do need to fix the background check system but I still don't trust the Government to create a listing of all the guns and who owns them, because it would eventually be abused.

[T Amnesia]

If you haven't fired guns especially full auto, you don't know just how inaccurate that makes them.

One basically points automatic weapons rather than aims them.  They are for throwing large amounts of lead in one general direction in a very short period of time.

I did write "assault-style" which just makes a high powered, large magazine rifle more appealing to many people because it looks cool.  Could it not be outfitted with a bump-stock and thereby almost operate automatically? 

 

There is no actual "Assault Style" rifles, there are only Assault look alikes. 

That's what I meant.  They are designed to look cool to appeal to an immature audience.

 

AS to the idea that large capacity magazines being bad, what's the difference between a 30 round magazines and 3-10 round ones?

The difference would be about 20 - 27 fewer bullets. 

 I'll ask you the same question about the Democrats when they had the super majority that could not be opposed if they wanted to do it. The answer is the general public does not want those changes.

 You can't ask me a question AND answer it for me.  Now, without believing in polls and the like, tell us where you came up with your answer. 

  I am going back about thirty years in my memory and it might have been a federal circuit court instead of SCOTUS, I'll keep looking.

Not to be disagreeable, but you should really research THEN post.

And how is that whole background check, permits, and license process working out for us? 

 We can't stop everything but we can make realistic decisions on what can be done and implement them. 

Nobody on the republican side has had any ideas nor made any realistic decisions, nor will the NRA even allow them to discuss such ideas.  They even blocked the CDC from collecting and analyzing hospital emergency room data involving gun-shot wounds.  I looked it up. 

quietly-congress-extends-ban-cdc-research-gun-violence

 The historical facts do not lend credence to your viewpoint. Liberal/Progressive decisions that affected the society standards of morality combined with the ascension of the Anti-Hero fiction the movies depicted,added to the breakdown. It was a combined assault by many factors that have brought us to the mess we are in today.As I said before, there was far greater access to guns by a larger range of age groups fifty years ago and about only 10% of the violence. As gun laws got stricter and the general law abiding public was restricted from access to guns, the criminal and mental case element increased geometrically. When the restrictions on permits was loosened in every case the incidence of violence went down except in GFZ's where it went up.

PLEASE - where do you come up with this stuff?  It makes no logical sense, and completely ignores actual case studies of gun violence in states (and countries) that have strict gun controls in place vs states with lax controls.  Responsible gun owners want stricter control and more effective background checks.

 

Explain the opposition to the newest Florida gun bill that has all sides against it, even the Democratic Party. This does not excuse the law makers from trying a stealthy way to sneak something across, but denotes their fears of public rejection of that bit of legislation

EXPLANATION:  NRA INVOLVEMENT and the chronic inability of republicans to govern.

 As to polls those for and against seem to reflect the views the creator of the polls want to see validated. I personally do not believe either sides polls. It's always going to be the squeeky wheel that gets the grease. I'm in favor of going back to the old ways where the NRA and DCM created classes for schools dealing with Firearm Safety and Legal Usage including the morality of using deadly force being restricted to only to stop further aggression and save a life. always stressed Stop never Kill. Even the Military teaches every soldier except snipers, to shoot to wound instead of kill, or at least they used to when I was younger in the Vietnam era.

If you can't make rational decisions based polls, all you have is your colloquial opinion, which will not win the debate.

By the way I am in favor of Realistic laws that might have a positive effect, but do not outlaw or confiscate guns from the public. Enforcement of the laws on the books would go a hell of a long long way to accomplishing that. We do need to fix the background check system but I still don't trust the Government to create a listing of all the guns and who owns them, because it would eventually be abused.

I don't believe you.  Gun registration is the LAW, but you don't want that.  there used to be a ban on assault STYLED guns, but you didn't want that.  Gun show sales should be regulated, but you don't want that.   There are thousands of gun  retailers that are supposed to, by law, record the sales of guns and submit the recorded data to the government.  But you don't want that.  The government COULD use that data to apprehend criminals, but you don't want to allow that.

 

In the end, how many times must we hear the stupidity of the statement, "CRIMINALS (and mental cases) DON'T FOLLOW THE LAW" ?   "When sticks are illegal, only criminals will have sticks!"   Is that not the reasoning of a fool who would abolish laws because the criminals don't abide by them?   Why devise speed limits?  Why make selling heroin illegal?  Pushers gonna push, anyway!

[M]

T Here are some facts backed up by research;

1. Violent crime is down and has been on the decline for decades.
2. The principal public safety concerns with respect to guns are suicides and illegally owned handguns, not mass shootings.
3. A small number of factors significantly increase the likelihood that a person will be a victim of a gun-related homicide.
4. Gun-related murders are carried out by a predictable pool of people.
5. Higher rates of gun ownership are not associated with higher rates of violent crime.
6. There is no clear relationship between strict gun control legislation and homicide or violent crime rates.
7. Legally owned firearms are used for lawful purposes much more often than they are used to commit crimes or suicide.
8. Concealed carry permit holders are not the problem, but they may be part of the solution.

Each of these facts is firmly based on empirical data. Here’s a deeper look.

1. America is relatively safe, and the trend is toward becoming safer.

• According to the National Crime Victimization Survey, violent crime has been declining steadily since the early 1990s.
• The 2011 homicide rate was almost half of the rate in 1991, and according to the Pew Research Center, the 2013 gun-related death rate was half of the rate in 1993.
• The number of nonfatal firearm crimes committed in 2011 was one-sixth the number committed in 1993.
• In the past few years, there have been minor increases in certain types of violent crimes, mainly in large metropolitan areas. However, these increases are nowhere near those seen in the 1990s and are largely related to gang activity.
• It should be remembered that it takes at least three to five years of data to show true trend lines. It appears that the collective homicide toll for America’s 50 largest cities decreased modestly in 2017 after two consecutive years of increases.

2. The principal public safety concerns are suicides and illegally owned handguns.

• According to the Pew Research Center, almost two-thirds of America’s annual gun deaths are suicides. Since 1981, when the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention began publishing data, gun suicides have outnumbered gun homicides. In 2010 alone, 19,392 Americans used guns to kill themselves.
• Most gun-related crimes are carried out with illegally owned firearms—as much as 80 percent according to some estimates.
• The FBI’s Uniform Crime Reports prove that the overwhelming majority of gun-related homicides are perpetrated with handguns, with rifles of any kind accounting for less than 3 percent of gun-related homicides. In 2013, 5,782 murders were committed by killers who used a handgun, compared to 285 committed by killers who used a rifle. The same holds true for 2012 (6,404 to 298); 2011 (6,251 to 332); 2010 (6,115 to 367); and 2009 (6,501 to 351).
• More people are stabbed to death every year than are murdered with rifles.
• A person is more likely to be bludgeoned to death with a blunt object or beaten to death with hands and feet than to be murdered with a rifle.

3. A small number of factors significantly increase the likelihood that a person will be a victim of a gun-related homicide.

• Where do you live? Murders in the United States are very concentrated. According to the Crime Prevention Research Center, over 50 percent of murders occur in 2 percent of the nation’s 3,142 counties. Moreover, gun-related homicides are heavily concentrated in certain neighborhoods within those counties: 54 percent of U.S. counties had zero murders in 2014.
• Who is your partner? According to a recent scholarly article in the Hastings Law Journal, people recently or currently involved in an abusive intimate relationship are much more likely to be victims of gun-related homicide than is the rest of the population, especially if the abuser possesses firearms.
• Are you in a gang? According to the Department of Justice’s National Gang Center, particularly in urban areas, significant percentages of gun-related homicides (15 percent to 33 percent) are linked with gang and drug activity. Gang-related homicides are more likely to involve firearms than non-gang-related homicides are.
• Are you a male between 15 and 34? The majority of standard gun murder victims are men between the ages of 15 and 34. Although black men make up roughly 7 percent of the population, they account for almost two-thirds of gun murder victims every year.
• Women and children are more likely to be the victims of mass shootings and homicide-suicide shootings than they are to be the victims of a “typical” gun-related homicide.

4. The perpetration of gun-related murders is often carried out by predictable people.

• According to studies, almost all mass public shooters have extensive histories of mental health issues (whether delusional/psychiatric or depression/anger), disturbing behaviors, or interpersonal violence.
• Intimate partner conflict and domestic violence history are major risk factors for homicide-suicides, even for those not involving intimate partners.
• Especially in urban areas, a small number of recidivist violent offenders are typically responsible for the majority of gun violence.

5. Higher rates of gun ownership are not associated with higher rates of violent crime.

• Switzerland and Israel have much higher gun ownership rates than the United States but experience far fewer homicides and have much lower violent crime rates than many European nations with strict gun control laws.

• • While some will argue that the guns carried by Swiss and Israeli citizens are technically “owned” by the government in most cases, this does little to negate the fact that many citizens in those countries have ready access to firearms.
• Canada is ranked 12th in the world for the number of civilian-owned guns per capita and reports one of the world’s lower homicide rates—but even then, some provinces have higher homicide rates than U.S. states with less restrictive laws and higher rates of gun ownership have.
• Although many gun control advocates have noted that “right to carry” states tend to experience slight increases in violent crime, other studies have noted the opposite effect.
• Higher rates of concealed carry permit holders are even more strongly associated with reduction in violent crime than are right-to-carry states. The probable reason for this is that right-to-carry studies often include “open carry” states, which have not been shown to correlate with more people actually carrying or even owning firearms. Rates of concealed carry permit holders are better indicators of the number of people who actually possess and carry firearms within a given population.
• Further, as with most correlations, there are many other factors that can account for increases in concealed carry permits—including the fact that people who live in already dangerous neighborhoods seek out means of self-defense. The Huffington Post noted that the rate of concealed carry permit requests in Chicago has soared in recent years after the city loosened restrictions, in large part, according to the Chicago Tribune, because law-abiding residents are increasingly worried about rising rates of violent crime in the city.
• The rate of gun ownership is higher among whites than it is among African-Americans, but the murder rate among African-Americans is significantly higher than the rate among whites.
• Similarly, the rate of gun ownership is higher in rural areas than in urban areas, but urban areas experience higher murder rates.

6. There is no clear relationship between strict gun control legislation and homicide or violent crime rates.

• The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence ironically makes this clear with its ratings for states based on gun laws. “Gun freedom” states that score poorly, like New Hampshire, Vermont, Idaho, and Oregon, have some of the lowest homicide rates. Conversely, “gun control-loving” states that received high scores, like Maryland and Illinois, experience some of the nation’s highest homicide rates.
• The Crime Prevention Research Center notes that, if anything, the data indicate that countries with high rates of gun ownership tend to have lower homicide rates—but this is only a correlation, and many factors do not necessarily support a conclusion that high rates of gun ownership cause the low rates of homicide.
• Homicide and firearm homicide rates in Great Britain spiked in the years immediately following the imposition of severe gun control measures, despite the fact that most developed countries continued to experience a downward trend in these rates. This is also pointed out by noted criminologist John Lott in his book “The War on Guns.”
• Similarly, Ireland’s homicide rates spiked in the years immediately following the country’s 1972 gun confiscation legislation.
• Australia’s National Firearms Act appears to have had little effect on suicide and homicide rates, which were falling before the law was enacted and continued to decline at a statistically unremarkable rate compared to worldwide trends.
• According to research compiled by Lott and highlighted in his book “The War on Guns,” Australia’s armed and unarmed robbery rates both increased markedly in the five years immediately following the National Firearms Act, despite the general downward trend experienced by other developed countries.
• Great Britain has some of the strictest gun control laws in the developed world, but the violent crime rate for homicide, rape, burglary, and aggravated assault is much higher than that in the U.S. Further, approximately 60 percent of burglaries in Great Britain occur while residents are home, compared to just 13 percent in the U.S., and British burglars admit to targeting occupied residences because they are more likely to find wallets and purses.
• It is difficult to compare homicide and firearm-related murder rates across international borders because countries use different methods to determine which deaths “count” for purposes of violent crime. For example, since 1967, Great Britain has excluded from its homicide countsany case that does not result in a conviction, that was the result of dangerous driving, or in which the person was determined to have acted in self-defense. All of these factors are counted as “homicides” in the United States.

7. Legally owned firearms are used for lawful purposes much more often than they are used to commit crimes or suicide.

• In 2013, President Barack Obama ordered the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to assess existing research on gun violence. The report, compiled by the Institute of Medicine and the National Research Council, found (among other things) that firearms are used defensively hundreds of thousands of times every year.
• According to the CDC, “self-defense can be an important crime deterrent.” Recent CDC reports acknowledge that studies directly assessing the effect of actual defensive uses of guns have found “consistently lower injury rates among gun-using crime victims compared with victims who used other self-protective strategies.”
• Semi-automatic rifles (such as the AR-15) are commonly used as self-defense weapons in the homes of law-abiding citizens because they are easier to control than handguns, are more versatile than handguns, and offer the advantage of up to 30 rounds of protection. Even Vox has published stories defending the use of the AR-15.
• AR-15s have been used to save lives on many occasions, including:

• • Oswego, Illinois (2018)—A man with an AR-15 intervened to stop a neighbor’s knife attack and cited the larger weapon’s “intimidation factor” as a reason why the attacker dropped the knife.
  • Catawba County, North Carolina(2018)—A 17-year-old successfully fought off three armed attackers with his AR-15.
  • Houston, Texas (2017)—A homeowner survived a drive-by shooting by defending himself with his AR-15.
  • Broken Arrow, Oklahoma (2017)—A homeowner’s son killed three would-be burglars with an AR-15 (the man was later deemed to have acted in justifiable self-defense).
  • Ferguson, Missouri (2014)—African-American men protected a white man’s store from rioters by standing outside armed with AR-15s.
  • Texas (2013)—A 15-year-old boy used an AR-15 during a home invasion to save both his life and that of his 12-year-old sister.
  • Rochester, New York (2013)—Home intruders fled after facing an AR-15.

8. Concealed carry permit holders are not the problem, but they may be part of the solution.

• Lott found that, as a group, concealed carry permit holders are some of the most law-abiding people in the United States. The rate at which they commit crimes generally and firearm crimes specifically is between one-sixth and one-tenth of that recorded for police officers, who are themselves committing crimes at a fraction of the rate of the general population.
• Between 2007 and 2015, murder rates dropped 16 percent and violent crime rates dropped 18 percent, even though the percentage of adults with concealed carry permits rose by 190 percent.
• Regression estimates show a significant association between increased permit ownership and a drop in murder and violent crime rates. Each percentage point increase in rates of permit-holding is associated with a roughly 2.5 percent drop in the murder rate.
• Concealed carry permit holders are often “the good guy with a gun,” even though they rarely receive the attention of the national media. Concealed carry permit holders were credited with saving multiple lives in:

• • Rockledge, Florida (2017);
  • Antioch, Tennessee (2017);
  • Arlington, Texas (2017);
  • Lyman, South Carolina (2016);
  • Winton Hills, Ohio (2015);
  • Conyers, Georgia (2015);
  • New Holland, South Carolina (2015);
  • Chicago, Illinois (2015);
  • Philadelphia, Pennsylvania (2015);
  • Darby, Pennsylvania (2015);
  • Chicago, Illinois (2014);
  • Portland, Oregon (2014);
  • Spartanburg, South Carolina (2012).
• I remember a statistic that said the United States if the cities of New York,Baltimore, and Chicago  were taken out of the picture it would rank 4th from the bottom in shootings. but I am still looking for it for verification.
• What do all these Statistics have in common? There is a greater number of guns owned by the public today that in 1990's and there are many times the concealed permits.issued to the public.
• 2017 figures at;https://www.gunstocarry.com/concealed-carry-statistics/
• History on right to carry, see how NRA supported permits & training at; http://www.crimefree.co.za/Role-players/Criminologist/Kopel/RTC-his...
• More guns = less violence; http://www.aei.org/publication/chart-of-the-day-more-guns-less-gun-...;              
•  Don't put total faith in any statistics because they usually show trends. You must correlate FBI,DOJ,and State crime rates broken down into Categories
• Aggravated Assault
• Armed Robbery
• Homicide
• Self defense
• Suicide
• Accidental
• Serial Killers/Shooters
• These categories must in turn be broken down into:
• Age
• Location i.e. Home,Public Areas,Cities,Rural,Stores,Schools etc.
• Ethnic Identity
• Income
• State
• Home Life
• Mental Health
• Nationality
• Religion
• The two resulting categories must then be further broken down into statistics prior to must issue permits and after must issue permits.
• Those in turn must be qualified by year and number of permits issued in that year to compare the results with the FBI and State Crime tallies and types of crimes to see what the actual trends are without emotional rhetoric added.

[M]

T,

You also asked why the background checks were not working so well. Here is a part of the problem, and it was a Liberal ADMINISTRATION that caused  or ordered it ;

Source; https://www.dailywire.com/news/28317/bombshell-obamas-doj-forced-de... 

ByRYAN SAAVEDRA

@RealSaavedra

March 15, 2018

On Wednesday, acting FBI deputy director David Bowdich testified during a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing that former President Barack Obama's Department of Justice forced the FBI to delete over 500,000 fugitives, who had outstanding arrest warrants, from the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS).

Considering the so called gun show loopholes, they don't exist because the sellers must have FFL licenses to sell, and keep books on their sales, or they go to jail. Every State has gun laws and most of them are reasonable. You do know that States can set their carry laws and registration laws. You may think the 2nd only allowed flintlocks like I have heard many politicians say, and that's untrue it meant the state of the art military weapons available to the troops. Starting in the 1930's the Federal Government put a tax on military automatic weapons that was so high at that time only the bootleggers could pay it. 

The other thing the Progressive Gun Grabbers seem to forget is the 2nd Amendment is the Symbol of our Liberty and Freedom. Consider this, a Flame thrower military grade is legal for any citizen to own (look it up) but the Military is forbidden to use them anymore. Thje bottom line is we live in an imperfect and dangerous world. We need to be able to protect ourselves from criminals and mental cases who have access to deadly force.

Here is another fun fact you might not know; A person who has a concealed permit to carry and has to use his gun to defend himself will be arrested, and the shooting will be thoroughly investigated to see if the shooter did anything illegal before they are released.Even Police are taken off duty and put at a desk until their shooting is fully investigated. No exceptions.

You speak of regressives and I am assuming you mean the Conservatives in the GOP. If I am wrong about that please correct me. I will cite some of the things I see or have seen. First was Madelyn Murray O'Hare and school prayer. That even stopped people who wanted to pray and not force others to pray with them or accept or coheres/force them to convert to their religion. Taking the ten commandments out of the law when it was those commandments that created the common laws in the first place. Bear in mind the commandments in a strictly non religious sense are the blueprint for a workable society.The break down of the pornography laws and restrictions in the 1970's added to the disrespect of women and stripped them of their dignity making them objects instead of people (Think Flint and Penthouse case). At one time there was a consensus of opinion on proper comportment in public, that was broken down by the hippie generation in the 1960's. All of these things came to pass under the aegis of Progressive/Democrat leadership.

[M]

T,

Better statistic rates per capita; the First contains the FBI Murder/Homicide rates and the second link shows the Gun related concentrations. 

America’s gun policy debate is usually driven by high-profile mass shootings that seem to strike at random, and it focuses on sweeping federal gun control or mental health policies. But much of America’s gun homicide problem happens in a relatively small number of predictable places, often driven by predictable groups of high-risk people, and its burden is anything but random. 

> 

This first link is a bit confusing because the methodology of the conclusions is not adequately specified, but it does give good informational trends. To get a better idea of the diversity you must read and incorporate the comments. https://www.quora.com/Is-it-true-that-the-US-homicide-rate-is-among...

>

Here is a clearer accounting of the gun homicides listed Geographically and most liberals will reject it because of what it says. It uses the distribution of incidents and their concentrations incorporating Poverty, Ignorance/Lack of Education, and Racial Segregation. If you want to curtail gun violence it must be done Locally & Statistically, but not Nation Wide or Politically Correct if it is to be effective;

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2017/jan/09/spec...